Back Like We Never Left

00:00:00 Speaker 1: What's going on everyone. My name is Darren Waller. I'd love to welcome you back to season three of Comeback Stories. If this is your first time joining us, we're honored to have you here. If you've been sticking with us since day one, we love you, we appreciate you. For those that are new, I'm Darren Waller. I'm going into my eighth season in the NFL. You may know me as a tie in that place for the New York Giants. More on that and more on my journey to this point later, but most importantly, this comeback Story. This podcast is about resiliency and about responding to adversity, and I can't wait to dive into that with my friend, my brother, my partner, my boy, Donnie Starkins. How you doing, man, doing well? What's up everyone? I'm Donnie Starkins. I'm a yoga and meditation teacher and a personal development coach and Darren and I started this podcast a few years ago to with the mission of just reaching as many people as possible to remind them that they're not alone and that we all have a comeback story within us. So we're excited for you to join in with us. Dive into season three. You ready to get started, Big d. We're about four years of being friends and brothers and just on the same journey together from the hard knocks and you reaching out to me, and it's just been a beautiful journey ever since. It's literally our conversations in person, me having coaching sessions with you that turned into what was the vision for this show? So I feel like it's important to get people that context and though like, hey, we're really doing life together. You know, this man was a groom's been in my wedding. You know, just really beautiful life moments unfolding just from conversations that we've been able to had and where we're lucky to share with you guys. Man, I can't tell you how many times I've told the story of how we've connected and what it's transpired into, and I've had multiple people have the same response and they'll say, what a beautiful love story, And it really is. It's like just the connection, the brotherly love that we have and how it started maybe coach client but has evolved into something way more meaningful than that, and then just being a lined in so many ways, both sharing our story publicly, you want a way larger platform but with the same mission, and to have the vision of the podcast and starting it a few years ago during COVID and we really didn't know what we were doing. I don't know if we still do, but we know we know the message that we want to share and we love to have meaningful conversations. And selfishly for us having this podcast and how many I think back to all of the guests that we've had and being so immersed in those moments, with these deep, meaningful conversations with some of the people that I've looked up to my whole life, and now we've got them on our platform, We're friends with them, They're showing up at your wedding. It's just such a beautiful thing. Yeah, No, it's incredible, man's and I feel like to really paint a picture of where we are now in this journey and where we're going with it. I feel like it's important for us to go back and you know, revisit some of our stories, especially for some of the new listeners that may be coming in. So to start off with my journey, you know, I was an athlete. I played all sports growing up, football, basketball, baseball, baseball, is my favorite. Played a little bit of tennis when I was younger. Um, you know that that wasn't really the issue. That that always seemed to work for me. I always had a feel for it. But when it came to just my internal situation, what was going on the inside of me, it was very confusing. From from early on. You know, I grew up in a really nice community just north of Atlanta, Georgia, had no external problems. Nothing about my upbringing was rough. I had both parents in the home, loving parents, parents that wanted to bring the best out of me without being abusive in any type of way, and good schools, good environment. So there was all these circumstances there for me to succeed, and in most in most forms and most realms, I did succeed. But when it came to the social aspect and just inside of me, it was rough. And it was people of my skin card who told me I wasn't black enough, and that was a wound that I can trace back to my childhood and realize that really hurt me. That was really tough and hard to deal with because I can't just go anywhere and change my skin color like I can change my clothes, like I'm in this black skin, and so the just the narrative that began to form my mind of like I'm black, but I'm not black, so inherently I am wrong. Inherently there's something messed up about me, and I need to try to fix it in different ways by people pleasing, by performing in sports, by just trying to put on masks everywhere that I went to try to fit into different environments, because really it was just a cover up for me feeling lost, confused, and lonely. And that's something that I carried through and carried into sports. There was a beginning of my sports journey where I didn't I was riding a bench on the football team my freshman year. Sophomore year, I had a coach tell me I should maybe try a non contact sport for anybody out there that maybe struggling in their early in their football journey. And those were things that hurt me and I carried my people easing into sports, and it took the joy out of it. By the end of my junior year, beginning of my senior year of high school, there was no joy in the sports. It was just anxiety around I gotta be this. I gotta be ranked this, I gotta have scholarship offers. I only ended up with six scholarship offers. There's so many more people with so many more offers than me. I'm not doing something right, you know. And that narrative just became the constant in my life. And the only way that I felt like I could get rid of that and numb that out and just feel better, feel sense of peace was through getting high and drinking, which started with painkillers for me, went to smoking weed, drinking sand nex, cocaine, what I mean, whatever would give me a feeling, you know, and would just take me out of the present moment and take me somewhere else, you know. I went through college, played football at Georgia Tech, and started getting into a lot of trouble. I got arrested for the first time my junior year high school, been arrested three times, being kicked off of or suspended from every team on every level of ed off my basketball team in high school, spending multiple times at Georgia Tech, spending multiple times with the Baltimore Ravens. Whence I got into the NFL, you could see the addiction because none of these consequences deterred me even a little bit from my habits, from wanting to use, from wanting to escape, Like nothing materialistic, nothing external, was going to be able to feel this internal void that I had. But I didn't have the knowledge or the vocabulary or the emotional intelligence to be able to be aware of that or even like voice that at the time. And I just thought success was all that mattered, performing, getting to a certain point, graduating from a great institution, getting drafted into the NFL. You know, I checked every box from when I was a kid what success was presented to me as but I was as measurable as I could possibly be. And so you started asking yourself why, like how did I get here? And then you feel so powerless because the addiction is so deep that you can't get out of it. And that just turned me into a master of just self sabotage and lying and hiding and essentially using people, using women, using using people to make me feel better about myself, because I always needed you to tell me about that I was good in order for me to believe it, because I couldn't inherently say I was good from that five year old kid that wasn't black enough and then all the things that I'm doing, getting arrested and screwing people over and like, all those things built up and it's just You're a piece of shit, is the narrative, you know what I'm saying. So all that stuff followed me, and you know, I crashed and burned pretty hard, and the biggest moment probably would be an overdose in twenty seventeen on what I thought was, you know, the oxyes that I'm usually picking up. It ended up being final, and by the grace of God, since that next day forward, it's been almost six years of sobriety and just an unfolding spiritual journey that's been amazing and the best that ever could happened to me. Nobody would look back on moments like that and think that's the I'm so grateful for that moment, you know what I'm saying. But I truly am, because it took me off of this path of achieving, proving, accumulating and put me onto this path of looking inward first and finding value, finding richness, finding wealth on the inside before I try to find it on the outside. And it's been such a rewarding journey I never even wanted to go back into playing football, but God had other plans for me. And here I am six years after my suspension, and people want me around. People think I'm a pro, people think I work hard and set a good example and somebody that they want on their team. And now I find myself, you know, on the Giants as one of the old heads on the team. Like I'm one of the top few oldest guys on the team. So I'm literally setting an example with all my habits and everything that I do and the energy that I bring in, the attitude that I bring. And none of that happens without my moments of adversity that I had to overcome and be vulnerable and and uh and just grow for myself, not just to get back to football, not just to get back to being a name in society, but for myself. And yeah, and my story continues to unfold. You know, it's resulted in great moments, amazing times with the Raiders, really successful seasons, really on pace to be you know, I was having visions of being one of the best players in that that organization had ever seen, and you know, things don't always go that way. I feel like, uh, you know, in a way God was trying to see if if I was clinging to the success again once I got back to being in the limelights, like if I take this away, like this is this your priority? Is this what makes you you? Is this your identity? So that's why I feel like twenty twenty one, the last half of twenty twenty one, and the twenty twenty two season with the Raiders are things I can look back on and be like, those are the most valuable seasons to me as a man. Not those are my least yardages in a season instance being a starter, But the lessons that I learned spiritually, mentally, emotionally are are incredible and it leads me to where I am today, ready to take all new challenges that come my way. But Donnie, go ahead and bless the people with your amazing story. Yeah, before I do, I just, man, I love you so much and I love your story and I could hear it every day for the rest of my life and still be inspired and hear something new and take away so much and just to watch your evolution over these last few years. There's so much to unpack and what you said, one of the things I took away was people people think I work hard, people want to be around me, But I don't think that ever would have happened or that perspective if you didn't think that about yourself. And I think some of the beautiful work we've done over the years is really just to chip away at all the shit that was getting in the way of that, all the old stories, the old you know, universal not enough story that I believe all of us have to some form to be able to chip away at that and really just practice loving yourself every single day, which I still just love the fact that we talk about this. It brings a smile to my face when people see you, the masculine of all masculine, a football player, like you know, too many people, a giant, I mean six six and you know, and I always tell people like, we're not talking about sports on the podcast. We're talking about real stuff. We're talking about our emotions, what we're afraid of, our vulnerabilities. I mean, we dive deep and we're not gonna ask anybody to go where we're not willing to go. And I think that's the beauty of the platform, where we create a safe space for other people to open up because we're just We've learned that sharing our story, our past has become our best asset, and that's that's how we connected. So yeah, I guess I'll segue into mine and I'll bring us back to that point up in Phoenix Airzone. And I grew up playing baseball my whole life. I played baseball and football, but played baseball all the way up until my senior year in college at Arizona State, where I had what was my fifth knee operation on my left knee, and it was a big one. It was pretty traumatic, to say the least. It was a cadaver transplant of my meniscus. I was the first person in Arizona to ever have this surgery. The doctor assured me that if all went well, it would be like having a new knee and I could possibly even play again. And so I put my trust in the hands of the doctors because he was the head orthopedic surgeon at Arizona State, and I said, Okay, let's do this. And the day I woke up from that surgery, I remember waking up in that hospital bed all alone. It was like all dark in there. I had a morphine drip and that morphine drip would go off every ten minutes, and I just remember every eight minutes nine minutes just hitting it because I was in so much pain. I looked down at my leg and my whole leg from the top of my hip bone to my ankle or foot was one big bruise. So just from the massive signs and scars of trauma, I knew baseball was over for me. And it was from that day and for many years after where my world got turned upside down from a life of an addiction. Yes, it started with pain killers. I was prescribed to eighty percoset a week for a month straight after the surgery and still getting no reprieve from the pain. My knee was swollen bent, so they have to take off your patella. They have to break it off to go in to do the procedure. And a month after the surgery, I'm like, eighty percoset a week, still dying in pain, and I'm like, the doctor had to have messed this up? What is going on? A month and a half later, I turned the corner pain wise, but I had to drop out of all my classes my senior year. I would get up to go take a shower like every third day because it was so exhausting just to crutch up and get my leg over the bathtub into the shower, where I was just wiped out. And so about eight months later, the aver piece that they put in my body ended up rejecting the piece, so the whole surgery was awash. By that time, I was walking around and not really doing much other than partying popping pills, and you know, pills are really what had its script on me. But like Darren, I also did a lot of other drugs, but it would be the drugs or the pain pills that would really I wasn't taken to get fucked up. It was about feeling normal. It was about once I would take them, to be able to let all the fear go away, so I could step foot outside my door and feel normal for a couple hours until the pill started wearing off. And also, like Darren, I also had an overdose. But that overdose that I had in Mexico wasn't even my bottom. I wasn't ready. I mean I remember my parents, my brother, my brother and my brother in law had to drive to Mexico and come pick me up out of an emergency room. And the next day they tried to do an intervention, and I'm like, I'm not going to rehab. I'll go to meetings. And I would go to twelve Step meetings just to keep my family off my back, because I didn't want to stop my life for thirty days and go into rehab as if I had a lot going on in my life. So when I finally got in and my life got so bad, I got into rehab and I just remember sitting on my knees and saying, God, just tell me what I need to do to get it right this time. I tried so many times, and it was in that first night where they bring in twelve Step meetings where the guys came in and they said things like go to meetings, get a sponsor, work the steps with that sponsor, and I heard it for the first time. Now remember I've been going to meetings prior to that, but never heard the message. It's kind of like when the student is ready, the teacher will appear. And so I had the prayer and it was like a foxhole prayer because I had the gift of desperation to actually hit my knees and be like, please, God, just tell me. And it was through the mouths of those two men that brought in that meeting where I heard the message, and so I knew what I needed to do this time to Once I got out of rehab, there was plenty of work I had to do, and that's where I got exposed into just my first therapy session and how powerful that was and so an important part of my message. My story also is that after three years of sobriety, I stopped doing the work. I stopped going to meetings, I stopped working with others, I stopped being of service. I strayed away from the middle of the herd, and I got picked off. I had another operation on my right knee. It was like a minor arthroscopic surgery, like nothing compared to these other surgeries. But I remember waking up from that surgery and loving the way that I felt. And six days later I was back in the doctor's office lying about the pain level so that I could get more pills. And that sent me into about a year long relapse, and since then, I just celebrated ten years of sobriety on May fifth. So May fifth, twenty thirteen is my sobriety date. But that relapse is one of the most important parts of my story because it reminded me I'm so grateful for it and in the big and it wasn't fun like having to stand up in meetings and be a newcomer and the shame of just like going back out and all of that coming up. But today it is the most important part of my story because it's just reminded me that the work will never stop. And thank God had happened three years in to my sobriety and now ten years in where there's so much more at stake, and through that process. When I was at my rock bottom, my mom, My mom was the one trying to help me anyway that she could, and she was doing yoga. I always say, way before yoga was cool, and she kept telling me, you need to do to yoga because my body was so banged up five surgeries on my left leg. I had three before I graduated high school and so my right hit my low back. I was just dying physically and dying spiritually. And I would always tell her yoga's for girls and hippies. I'm not doing that shit like that was my mindset at the time. But I finally went with her once and after that one class. I knew I would do yoga for the rest of my life just from aysical standpoint, but little didn't I know what it would do for the mind and the soul. And so I ended up going too teacher training, and you know, got out of teacher training, I'm like, I want to quit my corporate job and go teach yoga full time. And I got humbled pretty quick, and there was a slow progression. About five years later, slowly working my way out of corporate America, and five years into teaching yoga, became a coach. I've done a lot of work with Lulu Lemon and led their internal personal development program, and it just really allowed me to fall in love with coaching and self development, self love, personal development, whatever you want to call it. And so becoming a coach has just been a great compliment to the yoga and the meditation. It's like the mind, body, soul work that we all need. And it's so cool to be able to coach somebody liked Darren or it could be a stay at home mom, But honestly, the work that we do is it's the same work the work I do with Darren. It's not about the on the field stuff. It's everything else. It's it's giving him tools, techniques, and practices to be able to find his center. We're all getting pulled in a thousand different directions by the world's to demand for the attention of our mind. Now a pro athlete or someone in the limelight probably has even more of that, which is why it's so important to provide these tools and to carry this message. And you know, it's it's a lot of this stuff I learned in recovery, and I believe we're all recovery from something, and so we get to carry the message of recovery, even though people listening might not be, or someone in a yoga class might not be in recovery from a from a substance, but it's the same message. And you know, going through and work in the twelve steps, you know it's become the path of freedom more than anything. And freedom that that word runs so deep to me today because it's like I remember how free I was not and how bound I was to to the drugs and to my addiction, and so I don't want to shut the door on it. I want to remember that because those are the days where I might not be feeling it that kind of get me off my butt and keep me inspired because I always say, like, how free do you want to be? And just talking about it. I think there's a lot of shameful things that I did in my past in my addiction, but what frees me from the shame is just sharing my story. And it blows my mind that all of the terrible decisions that I made and the pain I put my family and friends through is actually what sets me free today if I just talk about it, and the fact that that can actually help somebody else, Like I truly feel there, like we are the luckiest. We are the luckiest to find a way out, but then also to find purpose through all the pain, much of it self inflicted. Like we know that once we take ownership. And I believe my life change when I really started to take ownership for my life and stop blaming the doctor that screwed me over and my family that didn't understand, Like that's when things really started to change for me. And yeah, shared my story about a year into my sobriety teaching a yoga event and from that day sharing my story what used to bury me in gilt and shame my past today it's my best asset. And then seeing Darren share his story on HBO Hard Knocks, I'm sitting there watching it at home, and I'm like, who is this dude? He's doing what I did, but like way bigger platform. And so I reached out to him on Instagram when he had about two thousand followers and nobody knew who he was because he hadn't really played. He was just coming off a year long suspension. And I'm just so grateful that he saw my message, and I just told him, I'm like, I work with other athletes, I love your story. I got you if you need anything, and he responded, and that's that's kind of where the love story began. Yes, sir man, that's such an amazing testimony, man, Just the similarities between our journeys have It's just been years of character development, man, years of spiritual development that has been building something in us. You know, it's brought hope back in to our lives. You know, it's bought integrity into our lives. It's brought courage into our lives. You know, it's brought the willingness and the open mindedness to look towards new paths and to be teachable, be coachable. It's allowed us to make amends to other people and start doing right by those people, and to keep taking inventory of ourself and too, you know, wanting to serve. And these are things that you know that hold us down through no matter what kind of storms come through our life. Now, it's not what happens to us, it's more so, you know, our response to what happens to us. You know, you don't know when things are gonna happen. You don't know the purpose behind a storm coming your way. It could be, you know, like I just said, for your character development. But that's how we can often view change as storms. And you know, Donnie and I we spend a lot of time talking about change, how to embrace it, how to just the proper way to look at it. And don you have so many good uh quotes on on change that just allow you to just approach it in a simplified manners. I don't want to I don't want to steal your thunder on that. I want to let you go ahead and attack you. No, I love. I mean it's the perfect topic with you know, everything going on in your life right now and the shift that's happened. But yeah, I always say that change is not part of the process, it is the process. And I think so many people there's a part of the brain that does not like change, and there's a part of the brain that likes to it's trying to keep us safe and stay with what's familiar. And in my experience in my own life and also and in my life in sobriety and when I wasn't in when I wasn't sober, how much we can fear change and stepping into the unknown. But in order to really step into the unknown, we have to we have to die to the way we thought our life was going to be. Like one of them, only there's a few, but one of the only constants in this life is change and also sacrifice, meaning we have to let go of something in order to invite anything else new in right, we have to make space like surrender daily. That's why I love yoga. You can just chip away at all the shit that's in the way, whether it's a you know, tension in the body, which ultimately is coming from our thinking and coming from stress, and all stress really is is wanting the moment to be something that it's not so it comes back to when we resist change. Yeah, it's it's ad on pain. And I know there's people out there that have had terrible things happen to them and lots of loss and tragedy. But acceptance doesn't mean that we need to like it. Acceptance doesn't mean that it wasn't fair, it wasn't fucked up that it happened, but we do have to accept that it's happened. And I know sometimes there can be a process, there can be grief, but we have to have tools to actually go through that process. If not, and we're resisting change, it just becomes add on pain. So even though it's painful, whatever it might be in your life, if we're not, if we're resisting it, it just creates more suffering. And you know there's a quote out there suffering is optional, but it does take awareness, right, And that's like the beauty of all of these conversations that we have. And just to see how much awareness, Darren, that you've cultivated in your life from the consistency of the work that you've done, Like it is the coolest thing ever to sit back and watch your revolution, but even more so your discipline on certain practices that you have, you know, a year unto our coaching. I'm seeing the things you're doing, and I'm your coach, and I'm like, dude, I got to step up my game because you were so dialed in and you had your non negotiables in your prayer and meditation and your journaling game is off the charts. And I think what I've seen, and if we're talking about change, what that's allowed you to do is just have this completely different perspective that it is all happening for us and not to us, right, and that this is God's will, not our will, and when we can surrender to that and accept the things that we cannot change, like, that's really what sets us free, no question, because I mean you're looking at a guy that is I'm experiencing the most change that I've ever had to take on in my life, especially in this in this new life. You know, um, since the last time we've been putting out comeback stories episodes, Uh, I become a married man, changed teams, gone from the West Coast to the East coast. I'm adjusted to living in New Jersey. I'm currently in Vegas. Has to record this, but for the most part, I'll be in New Jersey now. So it's a lot of things that I never would have expected to happen, but um things that I have the character to embrace. Now I have the like I have the wisdom and the knowledge to embrace it and not resisted, because if I don't, if I look back far enough, when I was a Baltimore Raven and there was an opportunity for me to h go to the Raiders, if I would have did that change, I would have been blocking myself from an immense amount of blessing, an immense amount of opportunities. And so who's to say that things can't continue to change, to work in my favor, to continue to expand and unfold a life that I never dreamed was possible. So it's I think embracing change starts with realizing that a lot of the things that we hold in high value in this world are fleeting. Like success is fleeting. You're not going to be successful all the time, trust me. Like I've been successful in my career, I'll still drop a pass. I'll still you know, if you look at the entirety of my journey, I mean we can roll. Well, I'll look like one of those dudes, that's rolling the scroll out and the papers rolling on the ground. If we're talking about mistakes, if we're talking about moments where I didn't show up as my most authentic self, and that's a part of it. Man Like, we have to embrace that this journey is is not going to be perfect, but moments like that is what makes everything worth it. Man Like, I'm grateful to be where I'm at. Yeah, I'm distant from my wife, but this is an opportunity for me to continue to, you know, take my career as far as it could possibly go and maximize that. And I'm supported in that by my wife being in this new place. Like I'm here on assignment. I'm not here by accident. I didn't just get thrown to New Jersey. I got placed in New Jersey for a reason. I got placed in New Jersey for a purpose. Leading men on this team, continuing the impact that my foundation has had, bringing that to the East Coast, trying to save lives, give people opportunities to recover. But once I realize what's fleeting like money, success, what people are saying about me, and realize that what isn't fleeting is my spirit, what isn't fleeting is my heart in my mind? Like those are constants that are going to go with me everywhere that I go, and I stayed this blend in those things. That's what's going to allow me to be anywhere and not just feel peace, but be the piece where in the middle of the storm, be the piece when it's chaos all around me, where there is real no foundation for me. I'm living in a new spot, I'm transitioning apartments, I'm you know, missing the most important person in my life to me, Like all those things are kind of like it's a little bit shaky ground. But when I know that it starts from me just being myself everywhere that I go and just being and not having to do, not having to perform, not placing unneeded pressure on myself, That's when I'm free enough to respond to change in the best way that I know that I can. And I can't do that when I'm stressed, like you said, Like what did you say about stresses? When you want the moment to be something that's not Like a lot of times, a lot of times that change is not going to be what you wanted because you may have been comfortable in your previous situation, in the previous circumstances. But this is bringing you out of your comfort zone. But I feel like we all know by now is stepping outside your comfort zone is the only way any type of growth is going to happen. Man, you know, just thinking about you going to New York City and us speaking this out to the universe and to God and to this platform of we're on a mission to reach as many people as possible, and here God places you in New York City, the media capital of the world, Like, well, of course it aligns with it aligns with your mission, Like there's a reason why you're here, and it's way, way bigger than than catching touchdowns and we know that. And I think that's another direct reflection of the work that you've done. And I think what's cool for me my core wound. Darren talked about being different where mine was just baseball was my identity, it was everything. It was the love of my life. It was like that was the plan. I didn't have Plan B. So when that was taken away from me, I didn't know what to do. And yes I had some physical injuries, but at the core I was taking drugs and alcohol because I didn't want to feel the emotional pain of the loss of my purpose of baseball, and so immediately when Darren and I started working together, it's like, you better know who you are beyond the sport. And this isn't just for athletes. This can be for the parent, to someone who puts all of their identity into their job, that you better know who you are because it's going to end one day for you and if you don't, if you don't have something bigger, it's going to get messy. That literally almost killed me. And so to see the evolution of Darren beyond the sport with rap music, you know, being a musician, a very talented musician, having the podcast, having the foundation, becoming a husband, like all of these things. I say this all the time, and I speak for Darren, but I'm very confident, like football could end for him tomorrow and he's going to be good and he's not going to fall down that path so many other athletes might fall down because his purpose is something bigger than just you know, on the field stuff. So, yeah, that was another thing I wanted to mention with what you said is just yeah, that lesson of the lesson of impermanence where nothing lasts forever, and that can be good. I mean that can work for us and against us. Right, So when all the good stuff is happening, that's not permanent. And then when the bad stuff, if you're in a value right now, when you're feeling like you know, there's no light at the end of the tunnel, nothing is permanent. So that lesson of impermanence is a great reminder that like we will come out of and it's like just learning how to ride the waves. And that's so much of the work that we do and Darren, that you continue to do is just trying to continue to find your center, keep the non negotiables, keep the practices that allow us to embrace change, to not resist, to see that like this is all working for us, right. And the other thing I wanted to cover was you talking about being the peace in the storm or the calm and the storm, and so now being in New York City, I remember teaching a yoga class in Bryant Park in New York City and it was like the coolest moment ever because here we were doing this yoga class outside sirens, NonStop sirens, all kinds of noise, and we were the calm and just like you know you in Vegas. I feel like Vegas has a lot of bright lights, but as we know, there's a lot of darkness in that town too. For you to come in and be the light in a town that certainly could use it. And now coming into New York City and being the calm and being that rock and being that center in the midst of the chaos, like this is what's going to help you. You know, deal will manage. So I guess my question to you is like, how are you managing? How has the transition been for you on a psychological level? So far, It's been a good transition. There's been a lot of great that's come from it. I feel like everything that's been happening with the team and and immersing myself in that environment and that culture has been outstanding. Um and even even the new place that I'm living in New Jersey. It's just like it's a different way, different than Las Vegas, way different than Georgia. But I've really enjoyed it. But I feel like, um, going into it, uh, maybe like a lot of people would because I'm human, I'm thinking like and there's there of course there's media covering my transition. I can't transition like a like a normal person. But so it makes me think like, okay, like I have to like this is a transition, but no, this is gonna this isn't gonna be hard. This is gonna be fine. This is gonna be I have the tools, I have, the practices, I got the discipline, Like this is, this is gonna be fine. I'm gonna handle it the best way possible and that's that. But I feel like I had allowed myself to accept that, you know, this is this is difficult, this is a lot, this is um you know, we're coming out into the wilderness per se. If anybody, if anybody reads the Bible, but just allowing it to allowing it to be hard, like not like self pitying in it, not wallowing in it, not being like being overridden by like asking myself why and all this, but just like, hey, like this is I'm gonna make the most of it. But this is difficult. This is difficult for anyone. These are three different things that are probably the top five things that stress people out, and they happen to me all at once. So it's just accepting that and moving forward. You talk about finding your center. You know I do that in a multitude of ways, but just the idea of finding the center, it's like you kind of think of it as like a rope's trying to pull you in each direction. And one is like the change is trying to get you to latch onto the past and how good that was and romanticizing that and how you don't want to leave it. And there's another side that's like, okay, with change, it's trying to pull you to the future, trying to line up every single thing, trying to get everything planned out, trying to make sure everything goes perfectly so I don't have to stress out. But neither of those make me effective right where I'm at in the present moment, and the things that keep me to the present moment, or meditation something I'm gonna I'm almost six years into on a journey with journaling therapy, seeing a like seeing a therapist. I've done group therapy. I still do when I want therapy, Like my life doesn't change without me consistently being in vulnerable settings for me to share and to talk. So it's it's that it's having a sponsor, it's making sure that I'm you know, I'm reading. I'm continuing to try to expand my relationship with God. I'm still creating, making music like things that fill my cup, that bring me joy, and not just because it's easy in my situation to focus on I got to perform, Like these last couple of years, the injuries and the time is taken away from what I was doing before, Like I gotta perform, I gotta perform now, I gotta do this. Okay, Yeah, I want to be excellent at what I do, but me trying to me being in a performance mode is not healthy for Darren Waller, who goes home and who has a soul and a spirit at the end of the night, and it's a human being. I want to be excellent and be great at everything that I do and uh and and leave a legacy, leave a powerful legacy. But you know, I I perform my best when I'm just being you know, we're not We're not human doings. We're human beings. Like when I'm being the best version of myself, just being who I am, that's when things line up. That's when all these opportunities that I have, I feel worthy of them and I maximize them, and I do great things with them. But it's all about just practicing and keeping myself in this space of like each and every moment that comes, I'm gonna be there for it. I'm not going to be anywhere else and be right where my feet are and just staying in my practices. It's it's fundamentals. It's you know, waking up in like how people go to the gym and do certain things. Like I'm hitting these fundamentals every day because it allows when something comes and may hit me out of nowhere and surprise me or shock me, I can come back to exactly who I am, come back to my center and be like, Okay, we're gonna find a way to not only to survive this, but thrive in this, because I'm not meant to just be here to just exist and survive and get by, like we're meant to live life and live life to the full. I would love anybody that's listening, maybe a new listener, to go back and listen to episode one, which is Darren sharing his comeback story and just noticing the shift in these last few years in his voice and his clarity and it's not just like it doesn't just magically appear. I'm telling you, it's a direct reflection of the work that he's committed to. There's so many things that came up to me, came up for me when you were just sharing. One of them was I remember when during COVID playing in an empty Raiders stadium, right and asking you like, how was it? How was it like not having fans and that external noise and validation that you can just but you can feel energetically and hear by the sounds. And I remember you saying it was peaceful, and I was like, wow, how many people would say that? And how many guys on you know, throughout the NFL were struggling because they didn't have that, because they needed something outside of them. So that was when I was like, man, this dude is different. But it came with It wasn't like, again, you were just handed this stuff. You've done a lot of work to get to this place, to have the perspective that you have, and it's just it's inspired. How do you feel like your recovery has helped you in the transition, in the physical move from Vegas to New York. It's helped tremendously it's you know, just starting with the realization of like I don't have to manage everything. I don't have to have everything, you know, be overseen by me, and like every single detail of this transition has to be like lined up in a particular way in order for it to go well. Like I can, I can come out here and it can be rough sometimes, it can be scary, it can be exciting, it can be lonely, like it could be all of these things. And I don't have to try to make sure that I have to be happy at all times. I have to be upbeat at all times. And you know, I also don't have to be sad in downing the dumps, you know, because I'm also in a position in a way to where I'm leading and setting the tone in my marriage, and it requires me to bring a certain level of energy and intentionality to it. So um, yeah, I mean, recovery helps tenfold. It. It doesn't allow me to bottle things up. It doesn't allow me to isolate, It doesn't allow me to just sit into things that are bothering me. It forces me to bring those to another person. It forces me to make sure that you know, I'm operating in a healthy manner because when I keep things in, those things eat at me on the inside, and my brain can go left in a heartbeat, you know. Like that's the thing about alcoholism and addiction. It's like it's the it's the thinking aspect of it more so than it is like the drinking. Like sure, like I haven't had a drink or a or a pill in almost six years, but it's the mind that still operates like it's an addict or an alcoholic and uh, and it tries to enforce its will on all types of different situations and relationships. And it's just if I'm not doing these if I'm not praying, if I'm not meditating, if I'm not you know, going to meetings, being in these environments, then something small in my day is going to start eating away at my piece. And it's gonna be little things over time, and then you look up and be like, oh man, I'm I'm depressed or I'm just angry or I'm resentful. And it wasn't just one major thing happening. It was just little things that started to add up. And I can't afford to lave those little things to add up to constant state of awareness, constant state of mindfulness that allows me to continue to approach this thing one day at a time. It's just as cliche as it sounds that philosophy. That perspective changed my career because I don't have to go and I learned I don't have to go into a season and say I need twelve yards. I can go into a season and say, hey, I got practice today. Each and every period, each and every drill, each and every rep of practice, I'm going to be present for and try to maximize that one rep and one rep start to stack. You know, people want to we want to get there. I want to get to the endpoint. But there ultimately is here, like the word here is in there. So it's like, if I'm maximizing each and every moment, I don't even have to check the stat sheet, I don't even got to check none of that. It's gonna add up at end of the ear. You can look up and be like, Wow, this is what I accomplished by staying in the moment as much as I possibly could. And that's what That's what recovery is doing for me. Man. It's approaching things from a spiritual perspective, not going into environments and situations and locker rooms, demanding that things be about me, demanding about me getting my performance, me getting my shine. No, it's about being a part of a greater whole, a greater good, and serving that greater good, and knowing that all I've wanted all along, when I was trying to get high and trying to get drunk, was just to be a part of something that was meaningful and be a part of something that was bigger than myself, because the traps and the prisons that I was setting around me were self centered, and they were by you know, we were self inflicted, like you said earlier. So it's it's it's a culmination of all those things, man, and just continuing to put one foot in front of the other and allow myself to be taught, allow myself to be coached. And I feel like I have everything figured out, because I don't. I'm not even close. I love that beginner's mindset which you've always had, and you've always been so humbled, I always say, sometimes humbled to a fault where I felt my part time job has been your hype man for the last few years, which I love, and I'll and I'll be I'll be that person forever for you. Yeah, you said the small things, The small things add up, and that can work for us and it can work against us. It's like the relapse doesn't happen the day we relapse. It was for me the moment I decided to not go to that meeting or not go call my sponsor, and then that just turned into, probably four months later, an actual relapse. But in the same way, those small that compounding effect, just like compound interest, you know, the small shifts. It's like if you were out in the ocean and you changed or your location or your route one degree, you'll end up in a completely different location. So if you're out there and you're struggling and you don't see the light at the end of the tunnel, just know, like that one little wind, that one little thing. The promise that you keep to yourself if you say you're going to do something and get out of bed the next day and maybe just take ten deep breaths, not try to start some twenty minute meditation practice, but just take ten deep breaths, or write down a couple things that you're grateful for. If writing it down feels like too much, think of a couple things that you're grateful for. But the most self confident people in the world are the ones that keep the promises that they make to themselves, and so we want to be impeccable with our word, like the Four Agreements talks about which Darren and I reference all the time, which if you haven't read that book, read it is it will change your life forever. It's something that I wish we would have read in elementary school and high school. Things would things would be a lot different. So yeah, it's I'm just so proud of you and I'll never forget. One of the greatest days of my life was probably the greatest day of your life, was your wedding day. And from my perspective, to get to sit back and just watch a man like heartbusted wide open, which wasn't always the case, so in love, but at the same time at your wedding, which it was such an epic wedding, you having so much clean fun, performing dancing, so happy like that was just one of the greatest moments. To be able to bear witness to that was such an honor and such a gift. But so that's a big change for you. How has Like what's the energetic or emotional change of now being a married man. It's a shift that is indirect, like contradiction to the the man I was in, like my previous life, you know, like the addict, Like the thinking behind it is like completely self centered, right, whereas being married is the complete opposite. It's about really being in service, you know, Like I feel like my recovery journey has prepared me for this in ways that I wasn't even realizing before. It's UM serving without without needing a h a standing ovation. UM. It's it's doing little things. It's UM being aware of how another person gives and receives love and making sure that UM their needs are met in that capacity. UM and just being intentional, intentional with time, intentional with UM, just spending quality time and in physical touch. You know, we're two very busy people, so we probably have to be a lot more intentional than the average. And not to mention UM being on separate coasts, you know, it's it's it's really forced me to challenge me to be intentional with you know, the every other weekend I was flying to where she was, whether she had a game or on the road or you know, a drove to Connecticut for a game from Jersey. It's like three and a half hours. So it's like doing whatever it takes to let that person know that you're there with them and that we're on a team, and how we communicate with each other, how we interact with each other. You know, we start, we started as as friends and you know, remain friends throughout that process, and you know, we're you know, partners lovers. But at the end of the day, it's just like enjoying being around somebody. And when you enjoy being around somebody and you are not bringing a ton of emotional baggage into the picture, it allows you to have a really healthy and just an experience that the joy continues to expand each and every each and every day that we're involved in it, you know. And I feel like doing pre marital counseling, counseling beforehand allowed us to prepare for that as well. That's something that I would recommend because I don't know if a lot of people are doing that. It allows you, it really allows you to separate the petty you know, it's like a lot of things that petty things that people may get mad about and couples get frustrated over a sock that's on the floor or dishes in the dishwasher or things like that. It allows you to move above that, like we need to go to a different level with our marriages and not looking and not looking to be offended and looking for these little things, but overseeing those and really get into the depths of the matter, like what have you been through? What are some wounds that you're still trying to heal from. How can I be there for you? How can I create a safe space for you and allow you to feel like you can continue to grow to the best version of yourself. So those are those are some things that since being married that continue to unfold. I'm continuing to learn and you know, I'll be four months into marriage here pretty soon, and it's you know, I don't have the handbook on this thing by any means, but I feel like if I continue to continue to show up and love myself the practice that I do, it allows me to be able to love her. Because I can't love myself first, then it's going to be impossible for me to continue to show up with that level of energy for her. So it's an ongoing journey, just like everything else we're discussing. Yeah, I mean that last thing you said is the key thing to remember that we can only love somebody else as much as we're willing to love ourselves. And oftentimes, like we went through with drugs and alcohol, there was a void, a god shaped whole, if you will, inside of us, and so we seeked, we looked outside of ourselves to fill that void. Where. It's the same thing with love. If if you cannot truly love yourself wholeheartedly, you know, you will look to the external and ultimately, like when we place expectations or all of our validation through the outside, we're always going to be disappointed. So you know, when we can love ourselves first, you know, let's just say you you truly have that, and then you find a partner, it's like you know how to hold your heart in your hand, and then when somebody else comes and also holds your heart, it's great. But if that person let's go, you're okay because you're still holding your heart. And if you don't have that piece, breakups and change like we're talking about, can be an absolute disaster. So loving yourself has to be priority number one. And in doing so everybody else wins. So I'm glad you brought that up. And yeah, just hearing you talk about Kelsey. If you have not heard the episode with Kelsey as our guests, go back and check that one out. We will definitely be having Kelsey on for round two because it's going to be It's gonna look and sound a lot different than it did in episode one where they were friends at the time, but they were not lovers yet or partners. But that episode is what activated everything. And if you go back and you watch it on YouTube or listen to it, you will hear magic happening and kind of having You can kind of feel God's hands going to work in this beautiful connection. So we've come a long way, my man, no doubt. Man, it's life continues to get better. I don't know if somebody I feel like needs to hear that that may be in just in shit, man, in the mess and like not seeing any kind of hope and feeling like we felt at one point in time. They just need to hear that life gets better. Like my life is only continuing to get better. It's not free from adversity, it's not free of difficult moments. That I need to find ways to work through and solutions for. But as I continue to work through those things and walk in the direction of my fear as opposed to running from them, this thing just keeps getting better. This ride just keeps getting more meaningful and fulfilling as I go along. Man, So this is a this is cool dog. It's a lot. It maybe a lot for people to take in if this is their first time listening to us. If you could give somebody, like one thing to take away that they don't need to is when they take their headphones off when they close out this podcast, Like, what do you think that one takeaway would be for you? I mean, the only story that matters is the one you tell yourself, right, This is like the comeback stories that were when we thought of the podcast name. I mean, this is what we wanted to We wanted people to share their comebacks. But comeback story, you know, coming back the essence of meditation is to come back, come back home, come back to your breath, come back to your heart. But also it's the stories that we tell ourselves. So if you have that story, which in my experience as a coach and just speaking and talking to everyone, there is a not enough story that so many of us, almost all of us, I believe, have, whether it's not good enough, not pretty enough, not skinny enough, whatever it is, that if that story is running the show, it doesn't matter what you acquire, receive, achieve, it's never gonna be enough. So we have to change the narrative. And it does come with work, but we can't do it alone. And the work, I promise you, is still an easier, softer way than continuing to do things the same old way, because nothing changes if nothing changes, So it has to start with how we feel about ourselves, and then you know, the belief system that we have and how we see ourselves in the world and how we see the world, and from there the internal dialogue and the thoughts can start to change. But you know, it comes back to each day doing the work to chip away at all the ship that's in the way and just honoring that that is going to be the work, and the work will become a labor of love eventually, like it is work. But it's still the easier, softer way, And I think we have to change the story that we're telling ourselves is the most important thing that matters powerful. What do you got and answer your own question, Oh yeah, I got to I would tell somebody, I would reinforce what I say earlier. It's not about what happens. It's about your response to what happens, made clear and evident by our own two stories. I got banned from the league for over a year for drugs and alcohol. If I continue to wallow and self pity in thinking that using was going to continue to bring me some sort of piece that was long gone, there's no way I'm sitting here. But the way that I responded each and every day and continue to respond allows me and sets me up for a life where being a platform, being a voice, being somebody, a person of impact is a possibility. Just by the way that I responded and said, this thing that happened in my life, this thing that I take ownership for, is not going to define me. Somebody may be listening. Is they spend time in a cell. That doesn't have to define you. Somebody may have been abused. Let's listening to this. That doesn't have to define you. It's all about your response to that, a loving response, and you respond to that with the story that you tell yourself. That's the only thing that's going to allow you to put one foot in front of the other, just leaving a crack of the door open towards faith and hope in whatever it is that you believe in. That's the only way is responding to circumstances because things are going to happen that are out of your control and that may have been totally in your control. But there's no one event, there's no one circumstance, there's no one day or moment that can define you good or bad. It's all about our consistent response and our consistent approach to the adversity that comes our way. So if you if you need one nugget to take with you on the road, please take that, don't let it go, and please remember what Donnie just said, because this is powerful stuff, this stuff that has changed our lives, and we're excited to watch your lives change as well on this journey with us. So we're grateful, grateful that you guys are rejoining us this season for this, like I said, with us, your first time, where you've been with this since day one. We're grateful that's you're coming back. We're going to keep coming back. Go tell somebody else that we've come back for season three. This is going to be an amazing ride. We've got some amazing guests. Can't wait for you guys to take in all that we're going to create and all that we're going to talk about. Yeah, I just echo all of those same things. And if you're out there and you still don't know where to start, hopefully you have maybe a little bit more awareness or something that Darren and I spoke today that maybe spoke to your heart. One of the best things you can do is just talk about it. If there's someone out there and you want to share our podcast and have some downloads with the person you know, one of your friends or mentors, to just talk about these new ahads that you're having. You know, it has to start somewhere. You can't do it alone. And it just goes back to our mission to remind people that you're not alone. And the only story that matters is the one you tell yourself. But we do this work together. We cannot do it alone. And they'll just keep reminding our listeners and I have to remind myself that often too. But this is the power of the collective and why we're here. Powerful stuff, so we can't wait for you guys to join us next week. Got a special guests, someone that you may have noticed from ESPN back in the day, but a man who is a storyteller, a podcast host, a man by the name of Michael smith Man that we can't wait to talk to and share that conversation with you. So I hope you guys have a blessed week and we're gonna catch it in