Beyond The Snap

00:00:04 Speaker 1: Comeback Stories is a production I've Inflectioned Network and iHeartRadio. Welcome back, everyone to another episode of Comeback Stories. I'm one of your co hosts, Darren Waller, here for another episode with my guy, my brother, Donnie Starkins. Donnie, how we doing today? Man? Doing great? Man, I'm always excited on we record, typically on Tuesdays, I get hyped up for this because one I get to see you and two we get to drop into some some meaningful conversations. And I'm hyped for today, no doubt. Man, I'm super excited about today's guest. You may have seen him, know him from being under center down there in the swamp, but we're excited to dive into this man's story as a human being, things that he's faced and overcame in his life. Please welcome my man, Graham merch the show. Graham. How we doing? And I'm doing great. I'm blessed so looking forward to this man. I've seen some clips, so I'm fired up to dive into it a little bit. Yes, sir, man, blessed to have you. We love to start from the very beginning. People see where you're at now and see you're on TV playing in big games. But what was life like growing up for you just as a kid. Yeah, I mean, so I I got the hat on right now, kind of fitting. But I'm from a city right outside of Kansas City called Overland Park. But yeah, I grew up with a really close family. Two older sisters both were both were hoopers. I wanted to be a hooper, but didn't really work out for me. Wasn't that athletic, so I stuck with playing quarterback. But really close family. They're all my best friends, talk to them every day. So I mean, great upbringing in two amazing parents, no doubt. Man, how you said I talked about football. How early did playing football come into the picture for you? Man, I'd say my earliest memory obviously grew up to play flag football and all this stuff. But for me, it was the moment where I found out I really loved it. Was when I was going to my sister's basketball tournaments and I was actually like throwing the ball around at halftime instead of shooting. So I was like, probably means something, I probably really liked this, and then I mean just got obsessed with it. I still played basketball, still played baseball a little bit, so but man, I always loved football, So that was that was deep down something that I always leaned into any chance I had, whether it was in the neighborhood or watching TV, watching guys play, that was all about ball. Man. I feel you. Man. My mom always tells a story about when I was young, like I'd be playing football, or it'd be basketball season, baseball season. I tried tennis for a little bit, but no matter what it was, what uniform I was wearing, I'd be running around the house with a football or like sleeping with sleeping with the football. You know what I'm saying. So, uh, nerfball, a little squishy nerfball, run around everywhere with that thing exactly. Never could get enough. But I want to ask you a question that we always ask like was there anything from your childhood that was maybe painful or confusing or affected the way you looked at life? And I asked that because for me, growing up, I felt very confused as far as maybe like finding my identity. I always felt like a strange kid. I was very sensitive, just felt like nothing that I did really fit in and I kind of got rejected for it, kind of made fun of for it, and I kind of dove into football. I was like, this is my way to prove myself, for me to be accepted in society. Was there anything growing up for you that may have impacted your perspective in that kind of way. Yeah, I mean, I'm gonna go a different same topic, but a different way of twisting it. I'd say growing up, I didn't really have any hardships. I mean, my parents did a great job of providing for me and working hard for our family, which I thoroughly appreciate. So for me, it was it was actually going through not a ton of hardships and then getting into the older years of my life where I started hitting those and then then you run into what you just talked about about finding your true identity, your values, what makes you go, makes you pick. So for me, it was it was growing up and like I was, I was blessed to have a great family, great foundation, a great household, and I think that down the road that was one thing that I mean, you don't wish hardship on yourself, but I think it's one thing to realize that that's in order to get to where you want to go, that's necessary, and you got it. You got to dive into that when you get when you get opportunities like that. So for me, i'd say that kind of came later down the road after not really having a lot in my childhood. You're always you're loved, everybody's always surrounding you and and supporting you, and then when you get on your own, that really tests that that foundation and your values. So for me, it was later down the road. It's a very wise thing for you to say. I mean, I know when I was, I mean, how old are you? Just turned twenty three? Man? So I'm getting old in my in my college years. Yeah, I mean looking back to when I was twenty three, you would never hear the words come out of my mouth like adversity is something that I need. Adversity is something that I welcome or I see as necessary for my growth. And I think that's powerful because there's a lot of young guys in your position that may be going through things that you're going through, asking why is this happening? Like how did I get here? Why are things not going my way? And just because it may be a season of things not going their way, they may see it as just life totally not going their way. So I think that's that's really dope. And Donnie and I know you got something for that. Yeah, I'm chomping at the bid always, but I mean it's graam. So I think I know like one city and it's Overland Park. Would be Kansas, Right, there's like one city I know in Kansas and it's Overland Park. Because one of my friends and clients, Tyron Matthew, live in Overland Park, and I would go out and travel and do one on one stuff with them all the time, and I'd fly in and fly out the same day. But it was Overland Park was the city I was in. Yeah, that's cool. Best barbecue in the country. Man, Oh, it is no debate. I'm curious for you. Okay, So not a lot of childhood shit, like, not a lot of hardship, but obviously it came in college and maybe you can take us through. Yeah, I just walk us through college or maybe walk us through like senior year and the hype and we also want to know a lot about like, yeah, there's all the good stuff, right, but then the pressures that come with the hype of you know, maybe after your All American game, like everything that came after that. So maybe walk us through senior year and then college. Yeah, so I actually we'll go back to junior year because that's when kind of everything started. So started off. I went to a private high school and then transferred after my sophomore year. So it was kind of that stage where sophomore year guys are starting to get on the scene, starting to get recruited, and I'm over here, like I need to play. Because I had an older guy ahead of me that was Gatorade Player of the Year, greatly on the team, and I was like, and he was coming back for senior year, so I figured I wanted to transfer closer to home. So I actually did that in high school and went to the public school right down the road. And then going into that year, the first year really starting, I actually I got offered by Kansas and then Wisconsin right away after. It was Kansas before the season, Wisconsin was after like week two, and then I went on a visit and I fell in love with Wisconsin. I fell in love with the people, the atmosphere, the city, everything that went along with it, the history. So I actually committed there and then play the rest of the year, and that was when kind of the offers started. Rolling in and I think, gosh, I don't even remember how many it was, but it was it was pretty much at anybody not to toot my own horn. But that's kind of the that's what the spot we got to. And you get to that that high rank status and as a young kid like that, can that can do things subconsciously, do you mind where you're like, oh, like I got some bag, like I'm gonna go in as a freshman, I'm gonna start I'm gonna be three and out like that mindset, so that that kind of subconsciously probably creeped in. Like obviously with my family being being so awesome and so supportive, I mean, they kept it real with me and they were like, look, you still got to work. So I always kind of had that reminder through my family and uh, like I said, two older sisters that were Hoopers played in college, so they kind of went through the whole recruiting process. So for me, junior was good, it was great, committed, and then senior year came and I was just so ready to get started at Wisconsin, so graduated early and ended up going in there. There was the first time in my life being on my own and I think that's one thing that as soon as you have that initial switch, like you might be ready for it, you might not, and you won't know until you're directly in it. And me, it was I was there and I was doing it, but I wasn't mentally all in on what I was doing, like I was. I was just kind of checking the boxes, like did I watch film today? Yeah, I don't know what I watched, but I watched it like subconsciously telling myself like, I'm doing all the right stuff, when in reality, like, the only way you truly grow is to see where you're falling short, where your weaknesses are, and attacking them. So for me, it was it was being on my own and that tested me. I mean, and the second you get to college, there's so many extra distractions. This was before all the nil and all that stuff. So I'm an old head now in college. Everybody's like, where were days like that where there's no nil souh. But yeah, for me, I mean, I mean that was rough. That was the first time in my life where, like I was, you're going through weeks and you just feel like you're just passing by, And for me, it was like I wanted to play. I didn't know. I didn't know what I had to do to get on the field other than what I was doing. So it was like there was so much room to improve to get on the field and be ready that I I was just going through. I was going through the motions and trying to find myself at the same time. So I'd say that was probably that freshman year was rough. I mean it was it was a fun season to be a part of, but I mean, you're a freshman not playing, and you had all these expectations and you think you should be doing something like you shoul think you should be playing, but in reality, you're not ready. So I'd say for me that was that was the first challenge that kind of kind of presented itself. And then I had a question for you regarding I heard your story about how you created a spreadsheet with your dad when you were choosing colleges, and it brought me back to my I played college baseball and I had three surgeries before I graduated high school. So the book was out on me. It's like, no one's going to invest in a lemon, right. I knew I wasn't going to go like get drafted, but I wanted to play college ball, and I ran with a noticeable limb, and so nobody was like really, So I went to junior college and then you know, had this really good game and hit two home runs and one was a walk off on like a showcase game they were doing for sophomores. And then everything change that day and then al a sudden, everybody wanted me in one one game. And my dad always used to say, always play hard because you never know who's watching, and it's like life right, And that day everything changed. But then I had to squeeze in like four recruiting trips in two weeks before the signing deadline, and so I had like Nebraska, Texas Tech, Utah, and Arizona State. And I remember when I signed everything I wanted, the letters and like college coaches blowing you up turned into a nightmare because when it came time to sign, I didn't know what I wanted to do. And ultimately I feel like I made a choice that wasn't my I don't know what I did, but it wasn't. It was Nebraska, and it didn't. It didn't work out like it was. I lived in Arizona and I didn't realize like Arizona's Arizona and Nebraska's Nebraska, but you don't realize until you go right. So I'm just curious for you, what was that process? Did you know for sure? Was Wisconsin the fuck? Yeah? And how did you choose Wisconsin over like Alabama, Georgia and all the big dogs? Yeah, So I've skipped right past that part, so I'm glad you brought that back. So, I mean, for me, I committed so early, and one thing my parents are always like, if you put your word into something, you put your trust, you put everything into it. You got to stand by that. So that was one thing that just going through that process. I mean, obviously, you got Nick Saban rolling up to your high school, Urban Meyer at the time it was Ohio State rolling in and You're like, I want to go see these places, but I already made a commitment to this place. So for me, I feel like that was kind of tugging at me the whole time. And and the hard part it was I was like one of the first commits in my class, So I'm out there recruiting all these guys and you build those relationships and you're like, wait, we're in this together, like this is bigger than just me and for me in the end, like I had a few schools that were coming in late and really trying to flip me, and I did actually take a few officials. I went down to Georgia, I went to Ohio State, and I mean it was it was tempting, but in the end, I mean I thought long and hard about it, and my heart was in Wisconsin and I wanted to I wanted to do something there that hadn't been done, and that was kind of everything that was our class was talking about, and that's what was pushing me to stick to my work. So I think, I think in the end, I'm even right now, I'm so thankful I went there because it taught me again on the field, it didn't work out the way I wanted or how it pictured it, but it showed me who I am as a man and who I want to be going forward. And it taught me all that stuff that all the all those hardships you go through, it it teaches you about yourself. So yeah, I'm forever thankful for going there, no doubt. Man, I'm I'm interested in wondering. You know, you see how today how like hectic and crazy. The whole transfer portal thing seems and it's kind of like a business decision guy just you know, for their own brand. Maybe you guys have a lot of different reasons in they're entitled to that. But as you as somebody that was like, Okay, I'm going into this thing, I'm committed to this school, I'm committed to this program. What was it like was it a little bit of like just like a lot of different thoughts of like, man, am I not a man of my word when it came time to like transfer and make a decision to go somewhere else, Like what led you to that process? And what was it like making that decision. Yeah, that's a great question. I think for me, it was a tough choice. It was a really tough choice. And I just felt like after that freshman year, after I started playing for a while, I figured out, I figured out my process how I approach everything, and I just I needed something fresh and our coach got fired and I was getting to the end of my career. So for me, it was like, you get to that point of your career, we only have one or two years and you don't know who the coaches are coming in the offense you're going to be running. So for me, it was it was all about scheme in which scheme fits me best? Is it something I don't know or should I go look for something and weigh all my options before I make a decision. So, I mean I had I had great relationships out there. I mean I have so many friends to this day that are up there. So it was an easy decision and it was a rough one. But I mean, in the end, there's points and seasons of your life where I feel like you have to be selfish and you have to you have to think about what's best for you. I don't think that's true all the time, but I think that there are definitely points where you have to be true with yourself on Okay, do I need to be selfish in this or not? And I think when you get in those personal settings, not really team settings, I think that's appropriate. But in the end, I mean, I made the decision, and it wasn't fun at the time, and you're sitting home when your buddies aren't bull prep playing in a bowl game, and you're you got eighteen days to figure out where to go. So that was also another that was also stressful time. Yeah, man, I think I think you said it so well. Being able to have the balance and knowing like when it's right to choose yourself investing yourself and not maybe be over extending yourself and saying, oh, well, it may look bad if I leave. People's opinions of me might take a hit at Wisconsin, but it's like, Okay, at the end of the day, I have wants and nees and I have the right to fulfill those and set myself up for the future. And you know what I want to see and the way things that I want to experience in my career. So I think the way that you put that is is dope, man. Appreciate that. Yeah, I think it's I want I wanted to ask you, Graham about the lowest point at Wisconsin. Darren and I work and talk a lot on this podcast and have been working together about quieting the noise and you know, finding your center and not taking things personally and all these things that that are really you know, we weren't taught this stuff in school. And it also brings me back to real quick. I'll come back to that point. I had someone kind of talking about the nil process and I and you know, I started to explain to this person that they are learning so much more about life, like applicable life in this little stint that they had with Nil than anything they're going to learn in college. And sorry if that's a knock on college, but that's just facts, like they're going to learn a lot about business and marketing and all of those things and who to trust. So yeah, I just wanted to circle back to that before I forgot and then yeah, maybe take us through the lowest point and like how personal it got for you and how you allowed the noise to get to you. Yeah, I think that's that brought me to a point that I completely didn't bring up, and that's that's COVID. So for me, my first start was it was so COVID hit right after the Rose Bowl and then we off for what was it three four months of all the COVID stuff. But anyway, we come back and there's so much uncertainty, and that that uncertainty kind of got to me a little bit of like I don't know if we're playing, I need to be ready. I got I'm gonna get my first start. So I mean, you get especially in a situation like that in today's world where everything's all it's all social media. That's how you get your news, that's how you get everything. So you're always on it. You're locked in, you're locked in your house, just scrolling all day. So for me, it was that was the first time where I felt like I was letting social media dictate some of my thoughts and all that. So play the first game and it was probably, I mean my career Wisconsin, that was probably my best game. So it's like twenty twenty for twenty one five touchdowns and like you start your you start your career off like that. So it's like bang, starting off hot. And for that night, I mean, you're you're the man, and everybody's talking about you. You're getting posted everywhere, and for me, it was like, oh, like this is sweet, Like this is everything I envisioned it, being like, oh, this is this is the dream. And then go to sleep that night, wake up the next day, test positive for COVID. So at the time that was where it was. It was like ten to fourteen days isolation. So I got pulled out of my apartment, put in like a little dorm off campus in the woods for fourteen days by myself. So for me, that was that was the time where after like the highest of highs, I feel like, just mentally, I was at the lowest to lowest because I realized that I was I was not I wasn't satisfied or fulfilled with external things, and I thought that that was what I wanted. And after going through that, I mean, I feel like that was a turning point mentally for me where I was like, look, I gotta I gotta invest in myself, in my mental well being before I can even like worry about that stuff. I gotta make sure I'm good before I start doing all this. So I'd say that COVID year was really it was probably the biggest area of growth for me just mentally and understanding the world I was in and how it was different than high school. So I think that was that was one thing of going from the highest to highs to the lowest to lows that quick and in one day. So for me, that was that was one of the things that kind of shaped me into just thinking like, look, I need to develop my mindset and develop my approach. So that's such a yeah. Sorry, I was going to say, there's such a beautiful lesson there, of the lesson of impermanence, like that moment that you're describing. I feel like you're going to be able to help so many people with that story of writing the waves of life and like nothing's permanent and sometimes it lasts one game. Sometimes it can last a ridiculous career like Tom Brady, you know, and so you never know, right, And so what a gift that you got that. I know it didn't feel like it at the time, but clearly it's like you're using it as strength and you found a lot of growth through it. Oh yeah, yeah, I think it was big. And I mean, I don't know how much you guys talk about faith on here, but for me, the biggest thing was growing up. We went to church, but I wasn't always going to summer camp and the learning about that, so I didn't really have a We had a foundation, but nothing that I built on in my time. So for me, it was going to college and not having that and trying to figure out what it was to me. And i'd say it up until shoot, probably after my sophomore year, sophomore retro sophomore year at Wisconsin was when I really dove into it, and I realized that there were so many points in my life where I felt like I felt like I needed I needed it, And looking back at it, I mean, I feel like those were all points where you get those little hidden messages where we're like, all right, like this is a great time to relax faith, and looking back at it, I mean, I wish I would had that because I felt like that transition would have happened. Quicker. I love to hear you talk about faith. Man. We ain't on here trying to hit people over the head with it. But when somebody brings it up, man, it it brightens me up. Because that's what when I try to explain to people, like why I believe in God, it's like, there are a lot of moments where it's like, man, these things things are not going my way. I'd love for it to be different. I don't know when it's going to change. I don't know how it's going to change. But when you're at that point, it's like, would you rather believe that these things are going to change and have faith and have a trust that they are, or just sit here and continue to find the reasons as to why it won't work or sit here and wallow in why I'm here, how I got here, And it's like, nah, Like that's like it took me getting brought to my knees to really truly make that decision because I grew up going to church, Baptist church in the South, and church was a chore, you know, and having a relationship with God was more of a transactional thing, like if I did things, if I read the Bible, if I showed up to yeah, churched on Wednesday night and Sunday night, like that would give me a relationship a spiritual life. It's like, no, it's really just my own walk through prayer, meditation. How I feel connected is how I developed that. But that was never really there for me until I got brought to my knees from fdiction, being banned from the league, like all these things, man, And it's like now I look back and I'm like, I don't know how I did it without faith. I don't know how I made it without faith. And I was just waiting to crash, ruminating on the negative, ruminating on why my life wasn't anything even though I had a lot of those external things. Man. So I really appreciate you bringing faith up man and speaking of faith, like, I'm sure choosing Florida, stepping into a new environment and having an expectancy of that to work out and be what you wanted it to be took a level of faith taught to us about that transition. Yeah, I mean I kind of made a deal with myself, And it was before once I made the decision to come down here. I mean, just coming down and visiting, I felt a presence of just the amount of people that cared about the program better in it. Like that was one thing where I was like, all right, the second I get down there, like I'm investing in everybody else and that will lead to me getting better as a player person. So before I got down here, I mean, that was one thing that I was like, that's a non negotiable. Every day it's what I'm doing this for somebody else, and I'm trying to trying to brighten somebody else's day, like at least one or two people every day. And for me, that was where you get down and you're so used to a that's where the transport was weird, because when you go to a school for what three four years, I mean you learn, like you learn how everything goes, you learn the off season, but for me, it was all new, and my approach was, look, I'm I'm investing in the people. I'm investing in in trying to get a little bit better every day, and I'm just gonna have fun doing it. So for me, that brought me so much joy in the process, and like, the relationships I've made in the past shoot eleven months now have been just amazing. Like I feel like I've known these people my whole life, and I feel like that's one thing where if I were to talk to anybody going to the portal, I'd say one piece of advice would be that, like, invest in the people around you, because it will be the most fun years of your life. Wow. Big. I feel like I want to make sure that anybody listening that is a parent, a high school athlete, aspiring athlete, a college athlete, to like go grab your kids or grab your parents and listen to this together because it's so important. And I'm sitting here going this dude is talking about service and like he found the hack at twenty three and you know, Darren and I found it through a very reckless, scary addiction. Found the hack to lie life, which is service, but you found it, and so I think it's important. I think some of these questions that I want to continue to get into you with is a way that you can help others and help parents and understand the pressures. I don't know if there's anybody on the college campus that would have met any more distractions than the starting quarterback for the university. So like, can you talk to me about what are like the priorities, your non negotiables that keep you, like your mind right, your mental health, your focus, meditation, whatever it is. Yeah, I mean, I think there's a lot of things, and I think the biggest thing really for anybody is being able to have a routine and a process and be able to grow and adjust things and add things, track things, but at least have a foundation of a process. And for me, that starts my day off with a morning routine. And I mean I've done the same thing for the past eleven months, and I might have added a few things to it, but I think the biggest thing is having a foundation of a process and being able to always have an open mind about adding new things, whether that's daily devotional or prayer or reading the Bible, or I got this little daily stoic book I'll open up. But it's not always reading, Like for me, it's making sure I'm drinking my water, eating the right things. Like there's so many different things that add to just the overall human experience that got you. Gotta dive into and find that for you. But I think having a foundation of process and just a few things every day doesn't have to be one hundred things. But if it's three things to do every day, like you gotta do them every day because because that sets you up for success. And like if it's making your bet, that's my that's my first thing I do every morning. But it gives you that mental mind frame like, look, I already started the day doing one thing, so that's a win. So that you just got to keep building on it. But I think the biggest thing is having that no doubt. Man, I mean, the routine is so important and I don't want to let it pass by, Like how important, how powerful it is your perspective coming into Florida, because you could have easily had a mindset of all right, I'm coming into this new opportunity, like I gotta get mine, like I gotta eat. Like I was slided before. I didn't get what I wanted, but now it's time to get mine. And I've been in that place before. I vividly remember I was in the practice squad in Baltimore and I came back, got reinstated from being suspended, and they drafted Mark Andrews, and Mark from like as a rookie was like showing like he was going to be what he is today and seeing him do that, get those opportunities and take off, and I'm on the practice squad and a lot of times my belief was like if somebody else is eating, there's not enough, there's not enough out there for me, Like and you know, not wishing anything bad on somebody else, but it's like man like being envious and like being like, well, why is he this? And at that time, like God convicted in my heart is like you got to you gotta support this man, Like wanting to see other people succeed is you know, an accelerator for you know, the abundance in your life. Because it's really just a reflection of damn if I don't if I'm critical of this other person, I'm really just critical of myself at the end of the day. So I think it is powerful that, you know, especially you being a leader and like commanding the huddle and having that mindset. That's that stuff is going to bleed onto the guys on your team and they're going to start thinking that same way. And that's how you know, programs come together and start doing great things. And like I said, it starts with those with those routines. Man, then I want to know how you feel. How did you feel as far as like the scheme fit and everything like stepping in, Like how smooth of a process was that for you to step in and really feel like all right, like I'm I'm here, I can just play football like the kid you splay football. Yeah, oh yeah, I think I think that was after putting in the work. I mean for me, it was the winner and I went in there and I was like, all right, I got to learn this offense. And it wasn't like as fast as possible. I was more like, I'm going to give this everything. I got to learn it because I need when springball hits, I need to be ready to work with these guys on timing all these different things that go into the preparation for the season. I wanted to make sure I was ready to do that, not just be like, all right, I got the offense down and throw a hitch, can throw a seam Like No, I want to know the ins and outs of everything. So for me, I mean it was the winner was a lot of work, like a lot of long days, a lot of early mornings, but I knew in the end that it would only benefit us as a team if I could sacrifice that on the front end. So for me, it was it was the work ahead of that first spring where I mean, anytime you get a new install it's like it's all just football in the end, but there's so many ins and outs of it where you got to know the intricate details of each play. So for me it was I mean, I played a lot of ball Wisconsin. I understood offensive scheme. But for me, it was coming down here and learning kind of the mind of coach and how he wants to call it. And I mean, honestly, I love the offense and I love how it gives me the freedom to It feels like every play you get to make it right, whether it's an RPO or a run check or a pass check all these different things. So I've loved it. What do you think your mental strengths are that make you the quarterback that you are. What's the mind stuff that you feel like you're blessed with or have worked on to get to this place. Yeah, I think I think the biggest thing is there's I finally not finally, I mean i'd say last year, my last year Wisconsin, I've finally just made the decision, like, look, the only person that's gonna stop me is me. And I had so much in early in my career. I was listening to so much stuff on social media. I like you said earlier, I mean I was. I was all thinking I need to get mine and and that wasn't the best thing for the team. So for me, I made the decision that looked like I will not be broken by somebody else. I will be broken if I if I break myself if I get in my own way, like but other than that, like I'm not getting my own way. And I think that's that's one thing that throughout the season, like you get you take a big hit, like you're like, dang, I just want to sit down a little bit. But like I always had a reminder like no, you're not gonna break me, like I'm gonna I might break a collar bone and I'll be down, but that's me breaking myself, Like I will not let people like break me, whether that's my my mindset, like the competitor, I am, my confidence, all these different things, like's my joy, Like I'll never let somebody else ruined my day, Like I'm gonna do everything I can to make sure they're having a good day and then they have joy in their day. But I will never let somebody take that away from me because I feel like that's the only way to go about life is to have joy and happiness and every day that should be should be your approach every day. Yeah, man, it's a powerful perspective to take with you. You You know, looks like you said, like hurting your collar bone in this this past season, it could be very easy for you to shift back into maybe a similar state of like when things weren't working out at Wisconsin and all, and being so quick to find the doubt in things, or like we always say why things aren't working but I can tell by the way just speaking the way that you know, joke about hurting your collar bone that it's like, this is just a bump in the road, and like you said before, this is a necessary thing for me because there's something to take from it. And plus being in football, man, this is the NFL p A also comes around said this is one hundred percent injury rate, Like there's no way you're gonna escape it sometimes and uh, I don't know if you're like me anyway, but there are plenty of times where I've taken injury as me being a failure, not necessarily like it just being a natural part of the game. And because it's very easy for guys to drift into that mindset because if I'm not in there, somebody's gonna be coming from taking my spot. And if I'm not in there, who am I at the end of the day. And it's like, the way that you're going about it, man, is what's going to keep the abundance flowing into your life, no matter what you got to go through, no matter what you got to experience. Man. Is it's a beautiful thing to hear how calm and just how centered your faith has you. You You know, I will say something you just said that I think is so big in our society today. Is doubt, and whether that's external doubt, internal doubt. I think that's one thing where being an older guy in the locker room throughout my career, I mean, you see how that affects people. And I feel like that's one thing that if whenever I see somebody that's a young person, young player that might not know the playbook, but they have that little second of doubt, I'll go up to them be like, look, man, like the only way to get rid of that football doubt is to put in the work. And if you can remove that doubt, that frees you up to be the best version of yourself. And I know that's one thing. It's a hard thing to do. Like I'm not saying that's an easy thing to do in football, and when you're in a team sense, it's all about just football, Like, yeah, that's not easy, but you can do it. But on a personal level, like that takes a lot of mental reflection, and I think that's one thing that that's big. That's big. I think doubt arises when you know, we break promises that we make to ourselves. And Darren and I talk about this all the time that the most self confident people are the ones that keep the promises they make to themselves. So it's you know, it's really just follow through. And I hear you saying the work, and someone might be like, well, what's he talking about the work? And it's it is that it's your commitments. It's the things and the goals and the practices and the process and the morning routine. And you know, you're you're the embodiment of somebody that is just like you've got so much self confidence, you're embodying it, right, And if you go back and we talk about your practices and your routines and how structured you are, it's a direct reflection on your consistency and your follow through. So if you're a kid, if you're out there and you know, you say you're going to spend ten more minutes throwing the ball, hitting the ball, and you go you don't go do it, you know that's only fucking with your confidence. It because you said you were going to do something and you didn't do it. If you're a parent and you said you were going to do something and you didn't and your kids involved, you're now modeling that same thing to your children. So it's like, do the things you say you're going to do, be impeccable with your word, Read the four Agreements, memorize that whole book. Like it. It will set you free, you know. Oh, yeah, have you read the Four Agreements? I'm going to a Yeah, I got to read that. It's Tom brad It's Tom Brady's Bible. So I'm sure if what I said didn't get you to read it, now you'll probably read it. So yeah, dude, Well and we'll talk more. Darren and I talk a lot about it, and it's gold Man and it's to me, Well, the four agreements are be impeccable with your word, don't make assumptions, don't take things personally, and always do your best. And those sound simple, but they he it is a simple book, but it'll blow your mind. Dude. It's going to help you, like arm you with some more tools. I need to read that, and I'm going to add something something you something you said, and I'm going to take it back to what we talked about a little bit earlier. But when I also feel like doubt and and all that creeps in when you're focused on self production, and like I think anybody that's listening to this, I think the biggest thing. We already talked about it. But when you have the mindset that I'm doing this for somebody else, in that servant mindset, I think that's that's what's giving me the most confident in the world because I'm like, look, I'm doing everything I am for other people. And yes, down the line, it will, it will, it will come back to you. But that's that should not be your focus. It should not be maximizing what I got for me. I'm maximizing everything I got for my family, for my team, for my close group around me, for my buddies, like I'm doing and that makes those decisions that much easier because it because it's bigger than you. I think that's the that's the key to this whole thing, the whole thing we call life. I think that's the key. And when you said earlier, that's that's the thing that gets me up every morning, gets me out of bed, make my bed, get into my process because I'm like, look, I got people depending on me, and you have that right, that's too too much. That's given comes great responsibility, and I think you can handle that. Yeah. I read a quote the other day is uh, in this little devotional I have called in God's Care to like a twelve step devotional. And there's this quote. It was talking about, you know, some of us take our work seriously, and some of us take ourselves seriously and said one is imperative and one is dangerous. And just speaking to what you were talking about about service, It's like getting outside of ourselves is so important because if it's all about us, that's when you know, our world gets smaller. That's when it's about It's about me, It's about my outcomes, it's about how I feel. It's about what I can get out of situations, as opposed to it being you know, the work I'm doing, the service I'm doing, Like, I take that seriously. I'm leaving. I'm really truly making a legacy at that point. I'm making lives better. I came, I'm coming into this world, and I'm making it better by the way that I carry myself, by the way that I you know, put myself out into the world. And that's really the ultimate legacy you could leave. I mean, I feel like when we go, when we're done, like it's not going to be like, man, I had twenty eight million dollars in the old investment portfolio or all these cribs or these cars. It's going to be like, nah, like how did how did people? How did I make people feel? Like? How good on my relationships? You know? And it's like it's so easy to lose track of those things during the day when that doubt creeps in and you feel like you gotta get to the bag or you gotta get that promotion, or when I get these things, I'm going to be happy. And it's like, man, we got the game backwards out here. So conversations like this, Man, it's how we change that. Bro. It's how we bounce back. It's how we come back to the lives that we want in the lives that we deserve. Bro. Truth drop the mic on that one. You know, as you're saying that, I'm thinking about how your whole life and as you're walking us through it, you've created a system. And that's like when I tell as a coach, I tell people like, when you set a goal and don't you don't achieve that goal, it's not because you're broken. It's because your system's broken. And I love hearing how dialed in your system is, and it just has me thinking like, this is the life if you want kind of that the hack to life or the path. You need to figure out your system to be free, to be comfortable in your own skin, figure out what your natural gifts and talents are through that system, and then go serve Like there's nothing else you need to do in life. Like you can try to complicate it with external things and all the stuff, but you know, it's fleeting as a human. We've talked a lot about football. I'm just curious, like on a human level to get to know you, Like, what do you love to do? Do you have like interests and hobbies outside of outside of football? Man, I love the golf in the off season. I'm a big golfer. And I think it's like subconsciously it trains you for a lot of different things. And as a quarterback, I mean, every plays a new play in football and in golf, every shots a new shot by shank one into the water. You might throw an interception, but it's all about it's all about the next step and what you're going to do to respond. And I mean, and it's just fun to play. I mean, let's just throw it out there. But for me, it's it's like the subconscious training of that where it's just so much fun. So for me, that's not a big hobby guy, but that that's a big hobby for me. It's pretty much like my main thing in the off season. I got another book for you. It's called Zen Golf. You'll love it, dude. It's like, I don't know if you've heard of that one, but it's it's everything you're talking about, like the lessons of life and how it's tied to golf on a personal level. Like what out there in the world. I love this question. I ask it often of like what breaks your heart more than anything in the world. What's like that one thing when you see it where it's just like m gets you. That's a wow, that's a good question, I'd say, Oh gosh, I'd say when when someone's presented with an opportunity and they're so like just in their own head where they just can't grasp it because like I've I've been there before. And that's one thing where, especially a young guy on a team like down here, if I see somebody that's that's got everything right in front of them, but they're just trying, they're trying to figure it out like that. That breaks my heart, you know, because I'm like, I want to help you, because I've been there and I've experienced that feeling where like I want to do this, I'm putting everything I got into it, but like I'm not doing the right thing for it. So i'd say, when you, when you, when there's an opportunity that's presented right there that someone's not taking full advantage of because they're they're struggling with with trying to figure out how to do it. I agree with that deeply, man Like, because I was one of those people right through, you know, my addiction and just my mental health being in shambles. I wasn't able to show the world who I truly was and what I was capable of. Like if you just look at from football perspective, like before I got reinstated and before my career kind of took off, I was just kind of like a flash in the pan type of guy. I would show like crazy flashes that practice when I was in Baltimore, but it would never translate to the game. It would be a lot of drops. It'd be like or I would be suspended and things like that. So I was one of those people and that breaks my heart too. And to see, you know, other guys get suspended or other guys have issues with substances, and it's just like, I'm not somebody that's gonna come down on I just want to know, like why, like how do we get to this point, like and what's the solution to get up out of it? Because every single one of these guys have something good to offer their world, good to offer their team, their community, their families, And I'm with you there, bro, it's just like it's heartbreaking to see somebody be you know, their mental health not be an asset to them to step into the world and really you know, take off with their purpose. Man, Like I'm right there, wish you Yeah, that's I think that's it. It's interesting. I've asked that question so many times and I've never heard that answer. And as you're answering it, what I heard you say is like what breaks your heart is seeing people that aren't aware, like they're they're they're they're in a trance, they're blind to like what's in front of them, and so they're they're not aware. And I've never heard that, but then it made me realize that's what I do for a living is help make people more aware. Actually that's what we're doing right now, Like this is why we started the podcast, so that you know, somebody listening right now that might be struggling an athlete or a parent that can't understand what you know their kids going through, Like this is why we're doing this. So yeah, man, it's it's your answers have blown my mind. I'm like so inspired, and I think wisdom and knowledge it's not measured in length and years, it's clearly measured in depth. And you know, for somebody so young, I mean, dude, I was such a mess at your age. So it's it's it's so cool to see and like regardless, you know, detaching from the outcome of what you do, whatever you're gonna do, you're gonna crush because you have the natural gifts. You have the the mirror, the modeling as as as a kid, your parents, the hard work. Like that's why you're doing what you're doing, because you saw it. It was instilled in you. And that loyalty like loyal to a fault and writing it out at Wisconsin right, Like these are beautiful qualities that are going to take you take you far in life, man, and it's been an honor to have you on. I appreciate that this has been This has been dope. I don't get a lot of a lot of time to talk about this like on a on a normal basis, So I think this is a is a dope idea. I think, you guys, this seems gonna take off. It's unique because like everybody's got a story and it's just a matter of getting it out there. That's big, no doubt. Man. Like you said, we just want to change the quality of conversations that people have with each other, man, because you know, I feel like there's nothing wrong with talking about what happened in the game, and you know, the dude being off side for Kansas City and like stuff like that. Like you know that that stuff that we enjoy. But at the same time, like as men, as women, as just brothers and sisters in this world. You know, like we got to have these conversations where we can get things off our chest if we're struggling or just you know, so we can get these things out of us so we can go back into our world and you know, do what we do and just be ourselves. Man. So I appreciate you wanting to come on here, sharing your story, being real, being vulnerable, man like this is dope stuff. Man. We wish you nothing but peace in your mind and your heart and success and everything that you touch. Man, as you go forward, bro be we'll be tuned in and uh, we'll just be locked in root for you. Bro right back at you, guys. Everything you just said, it's gonna I'm gonna keep looking. I'm gonna keep listening to these things. Yes, sir, well man, thank you so much for coming. And we're out of here, all right. Appreciate y'all. Peace, boy, that was so good. Comeback Stories is a production of Inflection Network and iHeartRadio. 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