Detaching from the Outcome

00:00:04 Speaker 1: Comeback Stories is a production I've Inflectioned Network and iHeart Radio. Welcome back, everyone to another episode of Comeback Stories. My name is Darren Waller. May know me as a tight end for the New York Giants. I'm joined here by my co host, my friend, my brother Donnie. Donnie, how you doing today, man, I'm doing well. Man. It's always a great day when we get to drop in and have some deep, meaningful conversations. Yes, sir, I'm so excited about this guest that we have here today. This is my running mate. This was my fellow tight end and teammate with the Raiders for the better part of four years, a guy that I love and enjoy and respect so much on so many different levels. We got my guy, my friend New York Saints tight end, mister Foster Moreau Foster. Welcome to the show, brother Darren, Donnie, thanks for having me on. I'm excited to be here. I've looked forward to this tremendously, certainly. Oh yeah, this is This is been a while in the making. I've been trying to poke this bear a long time, trying to get him on the show. And for some context for anybody that's listening. Uh, this is this man, me and him in meetings, countless meetings. Uh, just cutting up in meetings like I'm somebody. I'm that kid that I had all a's in school growing up. But my conduct in my grade, in grades and class I was a lot of unsatisfactory, a lot of like calls home from the parents and the principle. So I get distracted very easily. But just be just engaging with this guy, like jokes, laughing, but also being serious and being detailed in our craft. Just a lot of fun on the day to day and made showing up to work a lot of fun and uh, just real, real goofy. But but today we're going to dive into a lot of this man's story, and I want to start Foster. What was could you describe life was like growing up for you, whether it be just a physical environment, what it was like going on inside your head, inside your heart, like, describe what your childhood was like. Sure, my childhood, I'd say was was fairly standard. I had both of my parents in my life for for quite some time, and I was I was lucky to be to be able to say, like say something like that. You know, I was always just loved growing up around sports. I was. I was blessed to be fairly gifted playing most of the things that I like to engage. But that's that's more or less where I kind of found my purpose and my passion and most of my vision. I'd enjoyed football, basketball, track and field from time to time, but the swimming was swimming was awful. But that's where I started to build discipline and I started to learn most of my life lessons that I still carry today, probably through you know, elementary school sports or on the on the playground or whatever that was. But for me, I grew up mostly with most of those lessons being taught from my mom. From an athletics background. I learned a lot from her, just in terms of you know, time management and taking things serious, being true to your word in a way. And my dad more taught me kind of how to live life outside of the lines in a certain way, if that makes sense, just the dues and don'ts of manhood and how to be the right man when no one's watching, and to live my life for the greater glory of God at my arm day. Glory is the Latin translation for that. But that was that was most of my childhood was shared through those two and my three sisters. It was. It was a special time growing up for me. Certainly. I've gotten the chance to meet all the extended members of your family just by being your teammate and your friend, and it's so many good people, so many different personalities. I've wondered, was with your parents separating, was that like a painful experience for you? Like what, how did that maybe affect you internally in ways and maybe force you to look at life for the world differently. Yeah, and that's a great question, Darren. For me, like many people, I thought that I could harbor some level of control over it, and I thought I could help, right when in reality it wasn't my battle. I just I remember going back and forth. We're sitting at the kitchen table with my mom, dad, three sisters, and we're trying to we're fighting through it. I'm like, guys, you can't, like you could come together through Christ who strengthens you. Could you could do it, But obviously it was it was a bit of a I wouldn't call it childish, but it was definitely I was a little naive to believe that I could bring them back together as much as I truly believed. And from there I started to learn my parents more as people than as mom and Dad, which I thought gave me an interesting perspective into growing and learning a little bit more about the real world than maybe I would have liked. But it definitely set me with a different perspective, getting to know them as Tricia and Lyle more than mom and Dad. I'm I am grateful for that experience, regardless of what anyone says, and of course I'd still love for them to be together, but now I have extended family, and you know, the more of the marrier in certain ways. I'm really fascinated by that, because, well, how old were you when your parents got divorced. I believe I was fourteen years old. I think, okay, I was seven. And I always said and I think it was just a way of really never processing it. But I always would tell people like they always made the best out of a bad what could have been a bad situation, because my parents did always make it about the kids, and I've I've coached and worked through divorce and change with a lot of people, and oftentimes when they make it about themselves, it's when the kids actually suffer. But later on in life, after doing a lot more therapy and healing, I think I really downplayed the significance of the divorce and even though their cordial and they and they really did make make the best out of it, just the separation from my mom. I I lived with my dad. I mean I would see my mom a couple of times a week, But just that alone, especially be the being the youngest of four and kind of being a mama's boy, that that that probably had way bigger of an effect than I had realized at the time and for years later. Yeah, certainly, I think I had kind of start to I started to come into into knowing both of those people and kind of developing my own personality and identity, even though you know, it was far off from where I am today. I was starting to get to that age that those those close to teenage years where you start to believe that you know, you know everything, you're smarter than just about everyone, uh, and you have you have the rest of your life ahead of you. When in actuality, those are just the most important building blocks for your development into a person with with character who's trust and faith carry them through life. Yeah, for me, I kind of thought better of it, and for years I came to learn, Like I said, I came to learn those people probably in a similar way that you did. Man, we're all just doing the best we can with what we have. And you talked about being maybe too smart for your own good. Something people may not know is I call it foster coach Foster a lot in meetings and practice situations because it was really from this place of Honestly, I never probably vocalized as much, but it was a place of respect, from the way that your mind approached the game and the way that you try to inspire other people to like a standard of excellence. And I wanted to like, where did that come from? Was that always something that just kind of came naturally to you as a kid, Like how did that passion? And just like the different type of football mind that you have developed as a kid, Let me let me ask you this, Darren and you Donnie as well. Are there ever any times where you were a kid and you remember sitting in class and your teacher would roll would roll like a TV screen in and would put on a movie for you right before Christmas break or summer vacation, like was there ever a time where, and specifically during one of those times where she'd roll it in and it was kind of a niche movie that you're sure twenty nine of your other thirty classmates hadn't seen, but you are the one kid who had seen it. I remember feeling like that sometimes when I was younger, and I was like, oh, wait a minute, what what is this? This is? Oh, I know this movie, and then all of a sudden, it would fill me with a rush of like, Oh, there's a there's a really good part, there's a really good parts coming up. I've already seen it. I don't, And I don't know what that was when I was young. Maybe I just felt like I maybe wanted some type of attention or wanted to be acknowledged as someone who had already seen it. I don't know what filled me with doing that, but it sort of started to creep its way into other parts of my life. But from there someone had identified that in me. One of my strength coaches back at La Shoe, his name's Ben anniky One, and he identified that that was something that I always did was I would help in coaching where I could, and I'd always take a step back where I didn't know, and he always he said he really appreciated that, and to me, I was flabbergassed and I had no idea I would do it. But it kind of became a mainstay. And so when it became You and I that year in twenty nineteen, the mission and the goal was always to have the best room that we could. So it became an ownership of making sure that everyone was on the same page right, And so it always helped me too, knowing that if you're if you're if I know what you're doing, then I know that you're going to know what I'm doing. And if I could okay with you at the line, like hey, you got the shallow here and I'm going to try to get Zay Jones open on the on the quick whip out route, Like if I could say that and we could walk up to the line, I know we're going to be successful on the play regardless. And that was what was going to make us the best room. It wasn't about you know, you guys all as it was necessarily me being in the right place too. So when you guys, when you guys both jumped on screen when we started the podcast, the smile on each of your faces when you just saw each other's faces. I mean it was hopefully you're watching this on video and caught that. But could you guys just talk about your bond and what makes it so special? I mean, there's an undeniable connection. I've seen you guys together in the flesh, but just you know, even in those first few moments when we started this podcast, you could you could feel it. Where does that come from? And what's it rooted in? Okay, So let me give some context, uh. I remember twenty nineteen, Frank Smith was our tied end coach who was also a groomsman in my wedding. As you know, Donnie, he's the offensive coordinator for the Miami Dolphins now, but he was our guy. And this was when Foster was in the draft. He's going to be a rookie and h Frank comes to me and he's like, man like, I'm trying to like build this room. They want to go in a younger direction, and I'm thinking of a guy that will like compliment you greatly. I have two guys in mind. I think there's one that you know, I don't even know if they're really sold on him. Upstairs. But I just know that he's a guy that we bring him into this room and it's just going to be PERI and uh, it's it's Foster and we bring Foster in and it's just like we're kind of like if you look at us, like on paper, maybe we're like two very different people, you know. Like he's walking in the room, like he's commanding the room. Like like like I said, I call it coach Foster because he's vocal. He's not afraid. It's when he knows something, he's he's gonna speak on it. And some people will maybe like, oh, this guy's like a little loud for a rookie. Don't you think like he's a little over the top. But but I never really viewed I was never really on board with like the making rookies feel like they're just like the little the little guy, you know. I'm more so like let them be, let them know. And I feel like if you kind of let them, I think feel like they're a part of it'll help them with their growth and their development. More So, I'm like, let me let this guy be. And it's like he's the vocal. I'm more of like a reserve guy until I'm around people that I feel safe around. Then I'm just like a complete goofball. But I feel like, just like maybe a cloud, it's a case of opposite attract But I mean we ended up like finding light ways to make. We made music together. We've made multiple tracks together. He came record in my house, like we're just we found out we're just into a lot of the similar things. But I feel like it was coming in mentally with not a lot of ego. I feel like we can dive a little more into Foster's journey, but his journey in mind, I think coming through college were a little bit similar, whereas we weren't guys that were just like completely glamorized or these megastars. So there was like a humility built in kind of through our journey where people were kind of like I don't know about They definitely didn't know about me, like and I kind of earned that at that point in my career, and people were kind of like Foster like he's okay, Like he's physical, Like we know we'll get from him in the in the in the run game, and it's like we knew that we were more than what we were kind of being sold as but we knew that it was going to take work to get there, and just being honest and going about the craft the right way. And I feel like there was mutual respect from the beginning, wanting to enjoy each and every day, each and every moment together and then just going out and like Foster said, like trying to be the best group we could possibly be. And that started happening quickly. Like we were in running plays out of three tied end sets that a lot of teams ain't ain't ain't doing, and Foster was carving out a big time role for himself and was like our red zone threat and like our it like basically our guy that was like putting the ball in the end zone like and it was just really cool to see. And I'm glad that I was able to do some work in my heart to that point to actually be genuinely happy to see him succeed and not have like any type of envy and we could just succeed alongside each other and see the greatness in him develop and not be bothered by it. That's who I think made it more fun. And I don't know if I went too far on that and didn't allowdy room for him to share. It all kind of comes back to Frank for me. As I came in, he kind of laid it out for me in black and white, and I'll give him credit, he didn't pull any punches. He said, look, the guy that you're coming in to replace or kind of make the room younger. The guy's name was Lee Smith. He's a career exceptional inline inline tight end, excelled in pass blocking and run game schematics. He was a really good player, and so when I got there, basically what I was told was I'm here. I'm here to further my career and you know, find development and definitely grow from the player I was at LSU. But really it was I was there to protect Darren and do you know a lot of the jobs that he could do, but if I did those jobs well, then he could exceed in other fields. And it showed from I think it might have been the first play of the season, or maybe the second play. Darren had a had a thunder route on the outside on the left and he just converted it because it was pressed and went up and lost a guy. And I'm over there trying my my absolute best, not to get baptized in fire by von Miller and Bradley Job And for me, I said, that's this is it. This is exactly what it was supposed to be. And the more I get on the field, the more opportunities I'll find myself getting into. So being a being a protector for Darren was not all it's cracked up to be. Most of the time, I would just try to have a conversation with him as we were walking in so he didn't have to sign as many autographs because he was really starting to become a household name, especially in the Bay Area, and it gave me a sense of purpose, especially for a guy who was so well, well thought out and well organized, and he knew who he was. But I didn't know Darren at all, really, I just I knew about his story. I knew about his addiction, and I knew he was working his way into becoming the man he is today, the man that he always wanted to be. So for me, I was trying to help him get there in any way I could. And you know, I found I found my flock tending to someone else's field in a way that was that was what I was trying to do and with Darren he made it. He made it so easy and he was he had a quiet leadership role that I could be as loud as I want, but I'll never command as much respects as he does, especially from me. Wow. What was it like having Darren in as a leader, following his lead but also just doing things so different than the majority of the NFL in so many different areas of life on and off the field. What was that like? Just kind of having that that mirror and model. I have always said and will always say, and Darren will deny it till he till the day he dies. But the listeners on this on this podcast no better than me, are better than most that he's commanded with a gift of When he speaks, it needs to be addressed. He speaks almost with a with a tongue of fire. He speaks with the Holy Spirit. I've said that for a long time. I don't ever. I don't see a day where I won't. He's got a gift, and he's got a command, and he's got a conviction to tell his story and change lives. Telling that story personally through my recent diagnosis, I didn't really want to make it public I want to make it known. I kind of just wanted to go deal with it and then come back and be who I was. But my mom my girl, a couple and a couple of my close friends told me, no, this is a story that you need to take command of and try to affect other people's lives through your dealing of it. And most most everyone would think, what was me to think I could change someone else's life just through my story. But we're on the way there, and anyone who I could positively affect I would be remiss if I didn't. The first person in the first face that pops in my head would be mister big drink himself, Darren Wallers. So for the listeners that aren't familiar, what have the last six months looked like for you leading up to today and what exactly are you referring to? Back in March March, I believe it was March twenty third, I was diagnosed with Hodgkins lymphoma. I was going on a free agency visit down in my hometown of New Orleans, and I found a doctor that was giving my physicalist names Doctor John Amos. He's the team doctor for the Saints. He goes and he's going to give me a basically just a routine physical checkup, one that you would get at any any doctor's appointment. The first thing he touches right here is my left my left clavical and my left lymph node right here to where basically he feels he feels a mass. And we go through the tests, the hoops and the bounds. We do two different biopsies trying to determine what all it is. But it's certainly it's certainly not just some run of the milk growth. I'm definitely not just coming down with a little bit of a cold, and I haven't I have an inflamed lymph Note I wound up having Hodgkins lymphoma with the specific cell type of nodular lymphatic predominant Hodgkins lymphoma, which basically meant that my journey was going to be different than anyone else's because it's a more rare form of It's a rare, more rare form of Hodgkins. From there, we ran more tests and we wanted to make sure it was this rare form because ultimately the treatment methods are completely different from what you would find in a normal Hodgkins patient. So after we did that secondary biopsy, we found out it was the NLPHL form of Hodgkins that that rare strand of cell type. And I was set up to do about a month and month and a half of treatments that I'd completed down here in New Orleans, surrounded by family in the cancer center of the of the Benson Cancer Institute on the fifth floor over right here in my hometown, which was you know, it was pretty special for me just being about twelve minutes away from a place that was literally saving my life, and in twelve minutes the other direction was the doctor who had who had saved it because unbeknownst to me and unbeknownst to the doctor from the visit that I was on the day before I had, I had another physical less than sixteen hours before that, and that doctor found nothing, no no impurities, no gross and I was just I was grateful that my agents set me down here and he said it'd be good, it's what you want to do, and you I guess we'll never know how right he really was, because I'm I'm pretty blessed. There's there's so many layers to this. I remember when you first called me, and I'm listening and taking it all in and I'm just like, I don't know how to react to this right now, and and I'm going to get back to you and how you are on that call in a second. But when I got off the phone, I was like, Man, for years, I've seen this man do things on a daily basis to where I'm like, I know this man is not only like a starting tied end in the NFL, but a man that could like be that that piece, that guy on a team for years to come, somebody that can be like this is this is the this is our guy. I've I've seen that from you on a daily basis, and the opportunities that you've been given didn't always match what I knew as truth. And for you to have an opportunity and free agency to go somewhere and to have a new start and a new opportunity to be able to showcase your skills in a better in a different way, to have this happened, I was like, man, like, this is just like not only a lot, but it's just like it's a whole like spiritual experience in a way. So it's like nothing is guaranteed. You know what I'm saying, Like, this is something that you've put in the work for you and not only been like I can't wait to get my shot, but you've served teammates, served coaches, served the Raiders organization, the whole way in a just in the highest class and to get to this opportunity and in an instant, in a flash, it's like, oh, this is like taking away, this is no longer, this may no longer be a thing. But the calmness of your voice on that phone call is something that I will never forget. And I'm just like, how can somebody be this calm with all this, like because I know you were waiting for this moment, waiting for this opportunity, but you were calm, Like what does that? Can you explain that people that are listening, because a lot of people may just be overflown with anger, overtaken with resentment, or so many different kinds of emotions, like one, what were you what were you feeling at that time, what we're and emotions you were battling with. But can you speak to that calm? Because it's something that hit me as your friend, and it's something that I'll never forget sure, and not to take away from the seriousness with a little bit of levity, but that's kind of my thing. I was already I was already mad as hell that the entire, the entire tight end class of free agents, we were not going to get the numbers we wanted. It wasn't even going to be close. That was the reasons I was taking these visits. That was that was the intention. Was like, Hey, get in front of these guys. They're gonna love you, and then they might give us an extra they might give us some change on the back end because they like you that much and now that they've seen you, they want you. I thought that was a smart strategy, and I said, okay, let's go with that. And when I just I saw all the rest of the guys and their numbers were so low, and I'm like, ah, this isn't what This isn't what you know, Hayden Hurst, this isn't what he's worth, you know, Dalton Schultz, this isn't what he's worth. Right, But these guys are taking one year deals because the tight end class in the draft was pretty astounding. A bunch of really high grades and a bunch of really good players. So I was like, Okay, you know, I'm getting on these flights. I'm tired, I'm anxious, this is this sucks, but whatever, this is what we're doing, and this is this is what this life is. And in a second, when that doctor said Hodgkins lymphoma, every bit of anxiety that I had about free agency, that I had about ball, that I had about my public image, of what people thought that I was worth, or however much my dad sent me that this guy got or this guy got, all that disappeared and it was it just melted off of me and none of it mattered anymore. And I know that's a weird thing to say, but to me, it didn't. I could only think about getting this this, this this cancerous lymph node out of my body, get it healed, get fixed. Obviously I went through denial initially, but the doctor seemed sincere, and he seemed knowledgeable, and he knows what he's talking about. And if you know me, I might think I have a medical degree, but in truth, I never do, and I might I probably never will. But we we went and we talked to the radiologist. I was scared, I was nervous, and at that point, I just didn't want the information getting leaked out to anyone. I didn't want anyone that I know and love to get this information from a way that wasn't my words to them. So I made sure I cut I cut down a list of people I wanted to tell how I wanted to tell them, and I didn't want anyone to freak out because I didn't know any of the information yet. The doctor said, hey, it's probably high nineties percent that it is that it is some form of cancer, probably Hodgkins, And at that point I just wanted to make sure that people that I knew kind of got to find out before it would hit you know, a tweet by Adam Schefter or by anyone right. And I think we handled that well. I got to tell my parents, my girl, my best friends in the world, and at that point I was okay with starting treatment from that Sunday if I wanted to, and I didn't have to tell anyone else. But at that point it was it was time for me to share my story. Who is helping you guiding you through that process and kind of the decision making process of who to tell, did you have a was it the doctor or was there somebody else in your life or in your corner at the time. I would run everything by my mom. Every decision I would make, I would say, oh, you know, I had my mom, my dad. They were in the same house for the first for the first time in a long time, and I had said, Hey, what do you think about telling you know, telling so and so, Like I mean, do you think they need to know? And I'm like, yeah, I think so. I think I think that would And honestly, it was almost it was therapeutic for me in a way that I would that I got to talk to people that I wanted to talk to. You know. It's it's such a hard it's such a hard thing. Because one of my best friend in the world, Danny Atlink, he was on his bachelor trip and I was supposed to be on it. But he's like, hey, handle your free agency stuff. Like I get it, it's not a big deal, Like we're I'm going to see you before then, I'm going to see you at the wedding. Don't worry about it. But to call him as he's on his bachelor trip like just one of the one of the times that you always remember. And I didn't want to tell him, but I put myself in his shoes, and I would definitely want to know. Same with you, same with Alec and Gold, same with Hunter Renfro, Max Crosby, a couple of guys, old teammates, old great friends, And from there I just kind of like put a cap on it. I didn't tell most of my family members. I told my mom and my dad obviously, and my sisters had no idea. But I got him on a group FaceTime call and they sobbed and we laughed, and you know, I would make jokes about it to try to to try to alleviate some of the stress that they were probably feeling. But from from there it was I knew it was going to be a battle. It was just it was important for me to get it out on my own terms. Can you take us through like some of the what the anything that the cancer may have caused? Was it? Did you feel like a lack of energy? Was it fatigue? Like? Can you take us through like some of this the physical effects of it, Darren? Mostly, the only physical effects I felt were from the Bena drill that they that they gave us. And that's and that's God's honest truth. It was a completely different My cancer was rare because it doesn't require chemotherapy or radiation. I got extremely lucky. I felt the weight of the world bearing down on me. You know, after I got at it out, I was getting texts and calls and you know, a lot of a lot of love and a lot of heart and a lot of prayer was being sent my way. And I felt probably about ten days after the initial diagnosis, I really started to kind of settle into a oh man, this is really going to suck. This is going to be bad. I'm going to be trained. I'm not going to be myself. And from there I got a call from my oncologist. His name is doctor Carter Davis. He works over there at the Benson Cancer Center with Ashner, and he told me, he said, look like it appears that you might have a rare cell type. And so of course when you hear rare cancer, your brain doesn't go at Oh nice, that's great. Cool. No, but he said, you know, it actually might work out in your favor and you might not miss as much time from the from the football as you might think. And I said, okay, well, the football field is that's a bit on the back. That's on the back is to Burners talk to me about my health. And he's like, okay, well, so this form of this form of Hodgkins lymphoma is not nearly as aggressive, it doesn't grow nearly as fast, and you might have had it for a lot longer than you think. Like, okay, that's different, he goes. The reason that you didn't have any side effects is most most cancers leave side effects because it's your body's natural response to what the cancer is doing. Right, Like it's you're sweating in your sleep. It's it's basically taking all the sugar that you put into your body, and it's basically accepting it as its own and growing off of that. So you might feel like you'll feel tired, you'll go and you'll you'll lose weight rapidly because your body's not able to process things the right way. But in my case, I had just been dealing with it for a long time without really knowing and kind of just putting natural defenses up against it. But when he told me that, he said, we'd like to do a second we'd like to get the tissues from the initial biopsy. Mind you, they did a biopsy on site that day, within an hour, within thirty minutes of them telling me I probably had Hodgkins. We were taking tissue samples at the hospital, like at six forty five in the morning. And it was not a licensed it was not a licensed surgeon. It was a radiologist who had cut me open and took tissue samples out of my shoulder. It was, I mean, I was and I'm just I'm just I'm shocked in a way that I just I couldn't, I couldn't really do anything other than just take what they're giving me. And I'm like, oh boy, I'm gonna have to call Zach Taylor up with Cincinnati and say, hey, man, like it's not going to work out. It's not gonna But you know, it was the what I feel from it, right, what I felt through the entire process, To get back onto onto the topic, was I felt I felt a lot of mental stress, angst, a lot of things that were within my control, but the stress that I felt were from the things that I couldn't control to where I had no idea whether this were tuximad medicine wasn't going to work as well as a chemotherapy might or radiation could I also downplayed my diagnosis a lot because I knew that I wasn't going to have to go through a lot of the hard things that most other cancer patients do because for some reason, you know, no pain, no gain in my brain. But it's just I talked to I talked to you a few different survivors from different cancers, and that was always. That was always the message that they would leave me with is, Hey, everyone has a different path, everyone has a different journey. Just because yours didn't hurt as bad makes it doesn't make it any less impactful. It doesn't make it any less difficult. It's just your story, and it's it's different. And that I could I could still see the face of the woman. Her name was Sarah. I could still see she was a breast cancer survivor. I can still see her face. I know exactly how she said it, and it meant It meant a lot to me. It gave me more purpose than what I realized I had already had. I'm starting to hear the turnaround, but I'm curious before you start to tell more of the comeback part of this story. Was there like a lowest point or like the darkest place? That your mind went or emotion went like that kind of rock bottom emotionally, whether it was around victims or just stories you were telling yourselves. So what was the darkest point and then what was the turnaround? What shifted everything for you? There's a couple of different low points. But I felt fairly helpless after I had gotten after I had gotten the first scan back, they kind of they kind of they gave me the information, and I was I was waiting to do I was waiting to do a pet scan where they shoot you up with radioactive sugar tracers. Basically, they go in and they see where the cancer is. And you're sitting by yourself in a dark trailer, You're isolated behind a really heavy door because you got you got radiation literally flowing through your body, radioactive material. And you know, I I'm blessed to play a game for a living that pays me handsomely for something I would gladly do for free with my buddies in a backyard at any point in time for the rest of my life. I love playing this game. I love football, and they pay me way too much money to do it. And that's that's a small little spield. But for me. I got to the desk and they're like, Okay, here's what this pet scan costs. Would you like to pay it? An hour later and I'm like, oh my gosh, what are you talking about. Insurance doesn't cover that. And it's like they're talking about the premiums and they're talking about, well, no, you know, you haven't anything on your right and I'm like, oh my gosh, so this is so I'm gonna have to I have to try to beat cancer. I gotta pay to beat it. All you guys wanted me to do the scan. I gotta pay for this scan, and then I gotta pay for that biopsy, this second biopsy. And I'm like, I'm just I had been leading this, you know, this ignorant lifestyle of not I just had no idea what all was going on. I was stressed out, I was worried, I was swiping my card for things. I don't even know what was going on. And I'm like, you know, I'm thankful that I know, I knew that I could afford it, regardless of what it costs, but it just put me in such a low point of saying, what would happen if you if you weren't necessarily as skilled at football. What if you were doing something god knows, what if what if you went left instead of right that one time. And I'm just sitting I'm sitting there waiting for my turn on the on the pet scan, and I'm just I'm praying, I'm I'm thankful, but also I'm tearful, and I'm worried that, you know, because at that point I knew I had Hodgkins. I didn't know how bad it was. I didn't know what my cell type was, and at this point the machine, this was a test that I was unfamiliar with. I was scared. That was That was probably my lowest point. I think what I had alluded to earlier when Carter Davis called me and said, Hey, this thing might work out in your favor, and you might have a chance of a much easier treatment process than what I'm sure you've been preparing for. That really, honestly, mentally from a place of a place of where I started to feel the way of the world on me. And I had been talking to people about their treatment process and about how tough it was, and I'm like, well, you know, like it probably depends on the person they're like, no, it sucks for everyone. I'm like, okay, that's that's okay. Thanks, thank you for your help and your sincerity. But when that happened, I definitely felt to shift and a bit of a momentum, and I felt God's hand actively waving over my life in ways that I really couldn't comprehend. And looking back on it now, that was that was definitely the point of transmission. This might be a crazy question to ask, but do you feel grateful in a way for your diagnosis? In different ways? Absolutely, Obviously, I'm always going to say much happier that it was found when it was, so for that I am grateful, And you know, I'll give a small example the guy who found it, John Amos, doctor doctor Amos. He was so apologetic through the process of us walking through the hospital and doing the biopsy, talking to the radiologist, but he was doing something for the saints. I was on a free agency visit, last minute thing. So he rolled out of bed, got into the office, came to give me a physical. Had it been someone who was, you know, a little less hands on or I don't know, maybe someone who might have just might have just forgot to check that box. I could be sitting here or anywhere with a camper like a cancerous lump still growing in my neck. And I mean, you know athletes, you know, you know football players, you know a lot of people, even if they think something might be wrong, a lot of the times, you know, we'll just ignore it instead of addressing it, just because it's easier to just live in ignorance. I'm glad he was there that day. You know. I am grateful that it was found, and I think I'll be a better man for it. Certainly. I'm just grateful the way that you are. You've walked us through these last six months. It's probably less than six months, but the way that you tell your story, and it's just captivating, and I have no doubt that you're going to help so many other people, just like that doctor who gave you a more optimistic diagnosis, gave you kind of that glimmer of hope. That was the turnaround. I mean, that's why Darren and I do this podcast. It's, you know, for that person that's listening right now that thinks they're all alone, that nobody understands whether it's a diagnosis, if it's an addiction, if it's mental health, and they can actually hear that somebody else has gone through this, even though my pain might look a little different than your pain. You know, this is what connects us all. But I'm just I'm blown away by how fresh this still is for you and one what your perspective is, but how you tell your story, and I mean, I think you're going to have some some good options whenever football is over, for you to have a stage whatever you want that to look like, to help a ship ton of people. Thank you. You know, I joke with Darren when he was as he as he so eloquently put it, poked the bear when you try to get me on the podcast. I I joked back with him and say, you know, like, I don't really have anything that I've ever came back from. You know, I've been I've lived a fairly I've lived a fairly easy life. I've definitely had some hiccups along the way, and I've dodged a couple of bullets here and there. I've gotten lucky once or twice, but no real experience that I've had to, you know, stop my life and start a new path. Funny enough, I was just speaking cancer into my lymph milds. But from there it was, you know, it's a different it's a different mentality. Certainly, I'm lucky every day and I'm blessed that I then I know people like Darren, like you, Donnie, like people who I know that. It is fresh in my mind. But from the moment the diagnosis hit, there was no option other than victory. There was nothing. There was nothing else to do. It was just a matter of time. I go back to my my head strength coach in college. His name's Tommy Moffatt. He's a two time cancer survivor. I don't remember all that much from college. I remember plenty of plays, plenty of circumstances, plenty of fun nights out at the bar. But one thing that has always and will always stick with me is that strength coach, Tommy Moffatt, who I respected dearly. He told me, you don't know how strong you are until strong is the only option you have. I don't. I don't think anyone really understood the magnitude of what he was saying. But coming from someone who would give us our workouts every day and take ten minutes to individualize and personalize things for different groups, that he knows that we're going to have to work on this week. For him to say something like that to us, it just it meant the world. And we might have just done fifty updowns because three of our guys relate or missed class, or we just we had to do punishment runs or whatever that looked like. But you never know how strong you are until strong is the only option you have. I texted. I texted that to him. He texted me back some words. And certainly experiences like that and people who have been through it and can give me a little bit of light in the darkness. That's that's what it's all about. Man. I can't let you go without asking you and knowing, like the emotions and the joy and what your heart felt like when you were able to not only return to practice and return to being able to play the game that you love, but to do it putting on a helmet of the town, of the streets that you grew up in, you know, the restaurants and the Mardi Gras and all the crazy things that you crazy folks do down there. What like, what does that feel like? Because those kinds of things just don't happen, you know what I'm saying, like, like, what does like take us through that? Yeah, I mean, in a similar vein, how did I get diagnosed in the same town that my mom is ten minutes away from the hospital, and I could get my I can get my initial diagnosis, and I could drive home. I could drive ten minutes to my house that I've I've lived for what feels like my whole life, and hug my mom, who's probably one of the most important people in my life, if not the most important, and just be surrounded by family during the darkest time that I had ever experienced. In a similar way, I do my last treatment on March ninth. I finished it up three days after my twenty sixth birthday. And I remember seeing that last that last drop go through the syringe, and I said, Okay, all right, I think I think that's I think that's all she wrote. I went home. I woke up the next morning I was getting a haircut from as Darren knows good and well, my haircut. My hair stylist is the same woman who gave who gave gave me life is my mom is Tricia Morrow. She's given me a haircut. And my agent calls and he's like, hey, the Saints offer came through. It's exactly what we thought it was. How how soon can you be over there to sign it? Like I could. I just got to get a haircut. It's like, all right, they'll expect you within the hour or two hours or whatever it is. It was a funny day though, because my little stepbrother's names William. He was signing his letter of intent to go play college baseball. They had just won. They just want to stay championship with with their baseball team, and that's where they were going. And so he went and I had to interrupt my entire signing process so I can go watch my little stepbrother on one of the one of the one of the biggest days of his life. May tent was not supposed to be about me, but you know, he took it on a chin and we share the day now, which is pretty funny. Getting back to practice, though, was pretty special. And I'd be lying if I said there wasn't part of me that didn't want to be here and deal with you know, of all the five hundred people that I probably know in this world, really well, four hundred and ninety eight of them might be in the stadium. Every Sunday when I dress up in the in the black and gold. I don't know if I really wanted that pressure or that anxiety, But at the same time, I thought back to the times of me watching Jeremy Shockey and Jimmy Graham and Josh Hill and a bunch of different guys, and I'm like, man, like, oh, I'd kill for that opportunity, you know, and going to games in the Dome from when I was very, very young. I had always loved the Saints, and to be here surrounded by friends and family, and you know, obviously having Derek here throwing me balls, it's very familiar. I'm very lucky, I'm very blessed. It's it's an interesting experience. Certainly, this has been an honor man. I mean, I feel like we could go on and on and on, and there's so much more of your comeback still to be written. A couple of things I want to go back to. You mentioned the word protector, like you're Darren's protector, and that really struck a chord with me because I have felt in other areas of life that in a sense, I, in my world have been Darren's protector. And now, mind you he's six six, full of twisted steel and sex appeal, So he doesn't necessarily need me like protecting him, protecting him on the streets, right, but like in other areas from everything else, the chaos and everything else, trying to pull him from the center. So as you said that, it really it really hit home for me, and I thank you for taking on that role and seeing that as a way of being of service and being a good friend and a teammate and a leader. And then I just go back to the way that you just captivated us through a very very fresh story of yours that happened. I just I'm excited for you and what's possible. I'm excited for this year. I'm really excited for you guys to be teammates again, playing in the Pro Bowl at the end of this year. And yeah, it's just yeah, it's just a it's a gift to have you here. Man. It's been honored to sit back and listen to you. Thank you. It's it's honestly been a blast being here. It shouldn't have taken us this long, but I'm glad we finally got it going. Yeah, and Darren, plenty of plenty a lot of twisted steel, but plenty of sex appeal. Yeah, he's a friend for life. He's a friend for life, certainly. I'm just I'm happy that that we're just starting to kind of get to know each other a little bit, a little bit better. The role, Yeah, that that role of protector. I didn't ever think that that was really something that I could do. But just being there with him and for him, being where our feet were every day, that was how I found my best center certainly. So just you know, being a part of him, as you know, he's a special cat man. Thank you, bro. I I was thinking earlier. I was people always asking me how my off season went, you know, being with a new team and everything. I'm like, no, everything's great. I'm going to top flight organization. People top to bottom are just amazing to be with, you know what I'm saying. But I remember the first time we came and had meetings and Frank wasn't there, and I was like, there's gonna be good men that I have the privilege to be learning from and being around, But there won't be another Hymn. And I'm going to have to accept that and and and shaish the memories that we have and getting back to the giants, Like I love everything about my experience. But there won't be another U. Man, like in the in the room, like just in the locker room, hanging out, just being a friend, being a guy, laughing, like the things that we laugh about, like and just you know the way that we went about business, bro, like, there won't there won't be another U. And uh miss you dearly already, Bro. And I'm grateful that we got to have this opportunity to talk. Man. I'm so proud of you, bro. Uh just your strength, your your your courage, and just your overall perspective. Bro, like you know you you him. Bro, Just know that thanks my ship. My ship broke off. My ship broke off my wrist. I was there. I remember when it did. Yeah, I remember it was us in the Atlas Gym. Yeah it was good. Thank you man. That means the world for sure. Bro. So man, thank you everybody that's tuned in and listened today. Appreciate you guys. Keep coming back listening to us here on Comeback Stories. We'll keep coming back for you. You keep telling people that we keep coming back, and check us out wherever you get your podcast, check us out. On the Inflection Point YouTube as well, and we will catch you guys next week. Comeback Stories is a production of Inflection Network and iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.