Empowering Your Recovery Journey

00:00:04 Speaker 1: Comeback Stories is a production of Inflection Network and iHeartRadio. I'm super excited for today's guests. She's a speaker, addiction recovery advocate, a writer, a holistic wellness coach. She is dedicated to empowering women and I've been able to witness her journey throughout this whole process, and it's been it's been an honor to witness it. And I know you've recently celebrated or you have sixteen years of continuous sobriety. And most importantly, I think is that after sixteen years, you broke your silence around your recovery. So I'm excited and I'm excited to introduce to our Comeback Stories family. Hillary Phelps, Welcome, Thank you, thank you so much for having me. And yeah, I've been following your journy me as well, and you know you've been such a huge support, So I'm excited to have this conversation. We start probably like you've used to, You've been used to starting sharing your story about growing up, Like what was growing up for you? Like I mean, I say normal, right, like in the sense of I had a really happy childhood. My parents were married, had a brother and a sister. I was a straight A student. I was a swimmer, so I started swimming at the age of seven. I swim competitively through college, where I had a college scholarship. But it was pretty normal, you know, on the outside. I had all of the things that looked really good, meaning I was a straight A student, you know, at twelve, and at eleven and twelve, I was the fastest swimmer in the country for my age group, so it's a distant swimmer. I was at Nationals. I was the youngest at national So I had all of these things on the outside that looked really, really good. And I started, you know, as I got kind of into my teens, I started to feel not good, you know, and I didn't understand it. But you know, my parents are super supportive. You know. We went to the beach every summer, you know, kind of that traditional American family that you would think of, and so I didn't have a lot of you know, external trauma growing up. It was pretty it was a pretty happy childhood, you know. But at the age of fourteen, thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, I just started to feel like that, you know, and I know, Donnie, we've talked about this, that not good enough thing. Like, I just felt not good enough in any situation in space I was in. So I was never smart enough or pretty enough, or funny enough in any room. And that started to become really heavy, and that really loud voice in my head that kind of overtook everything else, including all the great accomplishments that I've had or the external, you know, positive influences. That was the one that became the loudest. And Coach Donnie coming in here too. Just make sure that you're not diminishing just how awesome of a swimmer you were. I know that you were, at thirteen years old, were the country's fastest swimmer, and you didn't mention that in like your little spiel. So I just wanted to bring that to the like because that's a big deal. Well, it's a big deal. It's a big deal for many reasons. One, you were the nation's fastest swimmer, but it still wasn't enough. So I know we're going to touch a bunch on that. But you know, I think I talk a lot about how people with this not enough story achieve a lot. It is the not enough story that drives people to the top and to the idea or their definition or somebody's definition of success. Yeah, Darren's raising his hand for those that are listening, Yeah, we got so. Yeah, this is I know we're gonna I'm excited for the audience to listen to this conversation because I just know it's gonna flow and and be natural because your story is so much similar to both of ours, and especially Darren's. And I'll let Darren chime in a little bit about the the commonality between the two of you and the not enough story. Yeah, I mean I don't even know where to begin. I mean, kind of like you said, of having all the things on the outside, but just feeling like not good. That started happening very early for me, since I was a kid. I mean I always knew I was good at sports and good in school and stuff like that, but it's always something that's just like this is doing nothing, and the emptiness and the void kept growing no matter how much stuff you fed it, how much stuff you tossed into it, even being like in the NFL and getting to the NFL and being like, man, this is it, like ain't none. There's got to be more to it than this, Like this is what I was promised to would make me feel happy and successful and you know, important and feeling none of those things. And it's just a real it's a reality. I fel like it's real for people in all walks of life. Not many people maybe want to talk about it, but it is a it's a real thing. I mean I I still feel it sometimes. Yeah, it's kind of like that Kyle. You know, the more that you pour into it, like the more I did, you know, the more I tried to fit in or the more you know success with someone said, well, if you try and if you train harder, and if you study more, you'll be faster and you'll get better grades. And I remember I still have this a book report that's like a plus plus. And you know, I was had National Adsprit records, I had all the things, and I was like, oh so that's not good enough. Okay, Well I'm going to try harder to be better. And it's like you just you know, keep pouring in a cup that has a hole in the bottom, right, It just is it just no matter how fast you do it or how many things do you do to try to be better, it just steal. It feels so empty. I remember Donnie was sharing that story Aaron about you, and I was like what And the way that we look at people, I'm like, wait, how how he's amazing and he's this incredible football player and he's got what And it's like we all have that. Yeah, you know, Donnie, You're right, like we all have that feeling not enoughness. Yeah. As soon as why we're doing the podcast, you know, we've sat, we've had We've had your brother Michael, and you know he and it's the same thing, you know, And I think this is why we've started it, right because people might think when Darren's all armored up in his football gear and a helmet, that he's immortal and doesn't have a heart and emotions and struggles and like all of those things. And so when we have guests like yourself, like Deren, like Michael, we can't bankrupt that story for that one person that might be sitting there right now listening and think that their problems are unique or that they they're different. It's like no, because I was telling myself the same thing at my rock bottom, and the truth was there were plenty of people that can relate exactly to what I was going through, and they found a way out. But I was telling myself, doctor screwed me over. Everybody's out to get me, you know. And so this is the importance the stories that we tell ourselves stories, right, I shared this recently. It's like feelings exist, like those feelings are last in our body for sixty to ninety seconds, like the actual feeling, the anger, the saddest, will love, the joy, whatever. And it's the story that we tell ourselves over and over again in our mind about that emotion that keeps us stuck in it. It's and it's and that's so true, that's so true. We want to I want to talk a ton about just where you're at now and the coaching that you're doing specifically to women. And the truth is, like you can be a coach and you can send a message to women, but I believe that same message men can hear that same message if we're talking about speaking our voice or losing our voice, or having our emotion or feeling our emotions, like this is for everybody. But I really want to dive into some of the stuff that you do that maybe we can give our listeners some applicable tools going into the holidays. Because Darren and I have committed to kind of just stepping up and you know, bringing guests on that can actually give tools and integrate some of of these tools into the challenges. We just passed. Thanksgiving. I mean, it's it's it's it's portrayed as these holidays with like all these amazing things that happened, but it's so challenging for so many people, including myself, you know, and so we want to arm our guests with tools. Okay, So the first, the best, the best advice I've ever given or think I love. Have you heard about, you know, Bob Procter, Change Your Paradigm, Change Your Life. It's one of the best books I've ever read, and I've I've listened to it an audible over ten times. Every once in a while pop it on kind of like a twelve step meeting and kind of because I get something different because I'm in a different space, so I hear it differently. But something that we've learned, right, is that paradigm of like you should be around family. You have to do this, like it doesn't matter their blood, and it's like if it's detrimental to your mental emotional well being, like we don't have to do anything, you know, but that's really hard and it's kind of like getting sober. It's like doing that first thing for the first time. And you know, something that I've been working with a lot of people and recently, or those boundaries because for me, because for me, it was like it felt like if I say, this is what I need and like keeping it to me, like not, you need to do this, like you know, I need to leave it since really eight o'clock, I need to leave it eight o'clock because that's my bedtime. And then people saying like, well, just stay another light, just do this, just do this. It's like, no, this is what I need for me so I feel better, so I'm a better human and they start giving pushback, and it's really hard the first time, you know, because it's like I'm going to do what I need to do for me, and then you get to choose how you feel about those boundaries that I'm putting up for myself. But that's hard because as someone that's a self sacrificer, a people please or all of those things that came along, that's why I drank, you know, to try to figure out how I can get in. But something that you know I've talked about a lot recently, is that it wasn't I was never wrong, like our voices, like my voice is never wrong, like my voice my intuition. But for so long I buried it in alcohol, hoolism, a toxic marriage. And what I found is I'm just in the wrong rooms, right, And so what it took for me, and I use this analogy of like walking down a hallway and you see all these doors, and you kind of walked out of the wrong room and you're on this long hallway and they are all these open doors and you're like, I don't know which ones for me, right, Like I don't know what door do I open? Which one is the right room? And the right room for me has always been that listening to your inner voice, listening to the guidance, And for so long I was told that voice was wrong, you know, And which is why I didn't share about my addiction and my recovery, because I was told it's shameful, it's embarrassing, people aren't going to like you, and so I kept it really quiet. But I found that once I shut in that space of just honoring that and saying like this is who I am and this person doesn't like me, then this is my person over here. But that's really hard, you know, and it takes that practice of like chipping away right, like one thing at a time and slowly doing that. I think, I don't know, you know, like the tools for me when I first got sober was really important to like, and people say, like, what do I do with the holidays? And it was like, don't do you guys do this too? Like I'd always have a drink in my hand and it was always sparkling water or diet coke or something like that, where people were never asking me like can I fill your drink up? Or can I get this or you know, things like that. And also what I realized is most people are thinking about themselves a lot of the time. You know. They're not thinking about me, and they're not worried about me leaving or they're not worried about what I'm doing, but they are worried about how it's going to impact them, you know. And so what I had to realize was that I'm the only one, you know, I need to worry about me and my my emotional well being. And so if I'm in the wrong room, I just need to step out those boundaries. I mean, I'm you. When you started talking about boundaries, I immediately I just went to Darren because I feel like I have so much more, much more empathy and compassion towards his price of setting boundaries. It's got to be so fucking confusing and like you know, where you set the boundary and watch family members. I mean, I can't even imagine like how much time, like an energy that must consume some people, especially when it is family or it's someone that we've known for twenty years and we feel obligated to like still give that person our time or energy, but we have like nothing in common with that person anymore. So Yeah, Darren, I don't know, I don't really have a question, but I just like, you know, I can't even imagine what that what that work looks like for you. Yeah, No, it's a lot. And I'm just sitting here kind of thinking more towards the route. And it's like, you know, I've been somebody that is uh you know, kind of like you Hillary. I've people pleaser really could struggle with self esteem so much. We had a guest on the show, our guy, Neil uh He comedian and it won his stand ups. Was talking about how if somebody gave him a trophy and like he described his body and was like a trophy case or like, and he looks inside of himself, and if somebody puts a trophy on that case and that shelving like he described it as, it would just slide down because he didn't even have the framework or the inner world to be able to support and hold up a comment. So I look at boundaries and I'm like, you have to be able to stand up for yourself. But if I don't feel that great about myself, how am I gonna stand up for myself time in time again and stick to those things like I'm going to succumb and be like, oh, well, you know, maybe I should do this like kind of like you said, like the things that we've been taught in condition to do. And it's like that's where it struggles. That's where it gets hard for me. And it's still a constant practice of trying to figure that out because there's more and more intimate relationships being married, you know, trying to maintain friendship amidst work in projects and things that I have going on, and it's like sometimes you just get so overwhelmed. I guess yeah, And I think that goes to like, you know, figuring out what it is that we like, like what do I like? And what have I been told? Right in that paradigm, you know, of like I've been told that this is what you do, and you know you do this, you do that, you do that, and so the right waiting the way I'm raising my son. I have a six year old and he's like, well, when I get older, I'm gonna get married and have a baby. And they said, is that what you want to do? And he's like, I don't know. And I'm like, you're six, you don't have to decide that. And if you don't want that, that's okay. And he's like, but no, you you have to have grandkids. I'm like, but I don't. It's your life, right, you know what I mean? But you know, I think like we've been taught a certain way, like this is what you do. But if you don't know, if I don't know what I like, then how can I stand up for myself? You know? And something I recently heard which I love is in the self sacrificing space is we can stop lighting ourselves on fire to keep others warm? Oh who keeps? Yeah? Man, I mean that's like I when I heard that, it's like, yes, oh my gosh, yes, Like that's that doesn't have to be a thing anymore. I don't have to set myself on fire to keep others warm? Right, Yeah, what's your lesson? Oh? Yes, And I was just gonna build off of that because I hear that and I think of, you know, my past and dealing with you know, relationships and just life. It's like like I'm leaning into codependency or self sabotage or like or maybe like a combination of two in the middle, and it's like, you know, I need I need somebody else to feel good, to feel great in order for me to be okay. But if this thing gets too good for the standards or what I tell myself I deserve, I'm gonna blow this thing up. Like I'm gonna take I'm a tear thing to the ground. And I'm just like, I don't know, And it's still there. It's still there. Still I want to eat at me. It still wants to show up in the workplace, It wants to show up in marriage, It wants to show up in relationships, and it's something I got to keep digging on, you know. I tell like the audience that that's listening. I'm not hosting the show because I've reached this place where everything is figured out and I have no more problems. I got plenty issues that I'm still trying to work through while also kind of giving myself credit for the growth. But yeah, dealing with it that just the inner world is can be chaotic, all right. I think I go like just giving people like I love what you said. You know that you don't have it all figured out and you're not perfect, and it goes to the grace of being able to give other people grace when they're going through something too, and space, you know. But to your point, it's like that's where I think for me, like the challenge comes in is when like I've got my stuff, like I've got you know what I mean, But I don't ever want to have somebody else carry my shit, Like I want to work on it myself before I can, you know. But if there's there's that's hard, that inner stuff is hard, and I I and it's for competitive athletes too. I find that it's really challenging because right you're taught to beat people harder, faster, stronger, whatever it takes. But then you know, it's kind of like a split. Yeah, it's tough. Yeah, And I imagine like there's got to be a lot of things going on in your world if I try to put myself in your shoes back in the day when you were this competitive swimmer, swimmer also a woman, and I want to know, like when you are a woman in that space, just a woman in general who wants to achieve and set high goals for herself. Like when you were dealing with your issues, do you feel like you kind of had to stuff them away to like not show a sign of weakness, to show yourself as like a strong being in this world? Like, how do you go about dealing with that? Because as a man, don't I don't know, Like I can listen, but I don't really know the struggles of a woman that's trying to set the bar high and achieve. Yeah, give the audience, I guess a picture to that. Yeah, So you know I was, I mean I think I was joyful and happy and so I loved the competition and I love being the best, until you know, it came to a place where I wasn't the best, meaning I was so good at all these things, a great swimmer, a great athlete. I was really happy. And then for me, I think it and this goes back to like we were talking about, like self confidence, right for me, I think it went back to like I had a little bit of depression, probably undiagnosed depression, which is incredibly common going through puberty, you know, all of the things that people do. But I was told like just to you know, ignore it and it'll go away. You know, it's just a phase. It'll just go And I was like, okay, well I'm just gonna push harder because that's all I knew how to do was just work harder, push harder, you know, and it wasn't working. And so for me, my solution was like, okay, figure out, like right, like, figure out how to make this work with the limited knowledge that I have and the tools that I have. How do I be better? How do I And so that's kind you know, when I started finding drugs and alcohol and it was like that would okay, well this makes me feel better. I'm not doing any better, Like my swimming is tanking, my grades are starting to slip, but at least I'm really good at something now, you know, like I'm good at not being bad, but like I'm good at the opposite. And so that gave me a sense of accomplishment because I think at the end of the day, we just want to be loved, appreciated and seen like everybody. And so for me, you know, I wasn't getting the accolades from swimming, so I surrounded myself with people that were looking to numb out and escape like I was, you know, and that's when I start changing like people, places and things, like everything started shifting and changing. And you know, when I got sober, I had to do the same thing. I recently got a note today from someone and she was like, I struggle with relapse, Like what do you do? Like I can't. I just keep going back in to treatment, I keep trying to get sober, and I keep how do you do? I was like, you know what, I had to change people's places and things. I did not go to the parties, you know, not go to the bar, get a whole new set of friends. And I think that's hard. And I also think, you know, like you're asking about what it's like as a woman in sports or women in competitive I think it's also hard for in my opinion. You know, there's this just read this. I don't know if you guys have women that run with the wolves? Have you heard of this book? I have not. So it talks about the wild woman archetype, right, because most women like going to that paradigm. We're told like, you shouldn't sweat, keep your feet on the floor, you don't curse, right like you have children and that's your job. And that's kind of like what we're told to do. And it's like, but what about the woman that doesn't want to shave her armpits and just be sweaty, so there's something wrong with her? And it's like, no, she's okay too. And so I love this idea of and it goes back to competitive sports like that wild woman archetype, like just being being able to be competitive but then also being feminine and you know, being able to I don't know, spit or but then also being able to put makeup on like it's all okay, you know. And I think that it's just I think a big story was just allowing people not to be who they are, you know, and accepting them and that goes back to being in the room, Like if I don't like them, I don't have to be around them, but I can give them the space to just be themselves and that's okay, and I can just back out. You know, it's tough. That's a lot of wisdom, right, dear Donnie. I know, I know he lost you for a second. But I asked Hillary, you know what it was like being a woman as you know, a competitor, as somebody that was trying to set the bar high and set standards for herself, And if it was tough for her to navigate that space of trying to be successful, but also like you know, do I have to stuff my feelings and my emotions away in order to keep going and put off this strong image? Just trying to gain a little bit of a perspective for her and women in their own walks. So I thought she, I thought she handled it amazing. I got a question for oh, I got a question for you. I want to know and maybe people would be curious of, like what it what it was like and what it is like to be Michael Phelps, the greatest Olympian of all time. Sister, Like, tell me the good and then maybe the challenges of that as you rode that wave as a family. Yeah, I mean, you know, it's so funny because and I'll say this, and I've said this every time, like the medals are great, right, like his accolades, and they important to the accomplishments are in like anything we've ever seen, and I don't think i'll see in my lifetime like it's on it's phenomenal. But I think I'm most proud of himp is just stepping out and talking about his mental health and being an advocate for mental health, hands down, because as we all know on this channel and this conversation, it is so hard to be vulnerable and for someone and Darren you know too, like to have all of those things and say, like, you know what, you all think I'm perfect, but this is what's going on in the inside, right, Because sometimes one of the reasons I got sober was because I literally felt like I was burning alive on the inside, right, And so trying to keep all that stuff in is just painful and at some point you either let it out or you just continue, you know, just to suffer. And so hands down, like and I think everybody in our family and all of his you know, friends would say the same thing. You know, the challenge came I think after the Only The only challenge was kind of for eight when nobody knew what to expect, you know, because it was he'd been this great athlete and the swimming world really knew him. But in eight, when it was a called Metals, it kind of launched him into the international scene. I mean, he'd been in the international swimming scene, but kind of pulled him into this athletic stratosphere that so you know, few people are in. And overnight he became recognizable. And in that moment, you know, things just kind of changed and the thing, you know, to small things like going out to dinner became impossible because Darren, I'm sure you like people come up to you and the funny thing like, I hate to bother you, but but I'm gonna do it anyway. Not the awareness down, Your awareness is down. You know you're bothering me, but you're doing it anyway, so you know, and then you know, and when some of the you know, the public challenges were really hard because it's hard not to fight for people you love, and so when people are saying really negative and hurtful and mean things about somebody that you've love so deeply as a sibling. It brings out the worst in me and my family, you know, because you just want to protect them. And so that was really hard because the bats. Yeah, I really I want to fight Darren's all the time sometimes on Instagram, but like you know, it's like it's it's it's that knee jerk, you know. And this is why I'm so grateful for the gifts of just mindfulness and all this work that we do, that we can actually have space to make better decisions and not react from a place fear, ego, because someone's talking shit about my friend, like somebody behind a keyboard that never played football or quit, you know, their senior year, so they're now living vicariously through everybody else. But I want to go back and talk about what you're so proud, what you were most proud of, Michael, because I said the exact same thing on our podcast when we interviewed. I'm like, the medals are great, Like that's all awesome, but what you're doing now and sharing this message and you know that moment when we interviewed Michael, that was the first in person interview that Darren and I ever did, so we just did it virtually. Yeah, we started it during COVID and Darren's first game was that season was against the Ravens and they were coming in for Monday Night and Michael's a Ravens fan, so we were able to line it up. And we didn't even have a podcast studio, and we use the podcast studio from Bluewire, our old producer, and we didn't we had never done an in person interview. And here we're in the wind casino, people are watching outside and it was such a surreal moment. But the best part about it was the rawness, the vulnerability, Michael's wife sitting in the studio crying as we're having this interview. And most importantly, I think Michael's talking about his still current life struggles that he has and just how bad it got for him over COVID. So yes, I'm the same way, but I'm most proud of and the same thing for you, like speaking up after sixteen years. Something you said that I've heard in your story, how you thought you were going to be no fun when you stop drinking. And I used to say the same thing, like I thought my life was over when I had to stop partying, but the truth was it was really getting started, but I had no evidence to prove that right, And so that's the fear part too. It's like stepping out into the space of the unknown and saying, but this is fun, and it's like, is it? It's all I knew for fun, Like blacking out, it's not fun, not knowing what happened the night before, Like, really, it's not fun. But I had somebody tell me when I stopped drinking. She's like, well, you're no fun anymore. And for someon on this two months sober, because that's all I wanted to be. I wanted to be anybody other than who I was, you know, because I'm I'm not funny. I mean, i can kind of be sarcastic, but I'm not exceptionally Like my sister and my brother are funny like i'm and they're also way cooler, like I think. I look at them and I'm like, they're just cool, like I'm I'm not. I don't think I am, you know what I mean. And so like I wanted to be that, or I wanted to be super funny, or I wanted to be able to recite everything I read in the book. I wanted to be all these things, and it was like, I'm not any of those, and that's okay, But being fun was the hard one. I think that the key to what you said, like that's okay at the end of it, right, because some of that can show up is not enough, especially if our siblings are all of these things that were not, you know, and then our level of whatever our standard were of success, we're measuring against theirs. You know. I have a brother that was extremely successful in sports, more successful than ninety eight percent, but maybe not as successful as me. So then it was always kind of looked at, I think sometimes as well, you know, not as successful as you. So once again, there's not enough story. Well I joke about my family too, like I was, you know, I was full scholarship Division one collegiate swimmer. It's pretty good. My sister was third in the world at fourteen, really good. My brother's the greatest swimmer of all times. So I'm the least successful in my family. Right, So to your point, like measuring that by anybody else, it would be like that's really you're great, Like have you seen them? They're really good? But yeah, it's also that measuring our insides to other people's outsides, you know. So I look at Darren doing these great things on the football field and having all this great success, and Honey, you leading these ethic retreats, and I'm like, oh my gosh, they're living the life, you know, where meanwhile, you have the same feelings on the inside as I do. But I'm just looking at the external things and seeing what you're presenting is as your internal truth too, And I think that's where it's really hard. Yeah, comparison. Yeah, I mean I could draw a parallel from you know, our inner world to you talking about sobriety is going to be no fun, to even to your brother and his mental health journey. It's like we have to give people permission to like go along their journey and give themselves time to believe this new truth like that, you know, speaking on mental health can be stronger than any amount of championships, one medals, one Like I got to give myself time to grow into the truth that my life is going to get better from the point that I stopped drinking, Like I have to give myself time to grow into thinking that what's on the inside matters, and I don't have to compare that to anybody else. And it's just like, well, let the people know, like your journey can take time. It doesn't have to change overnight. It doesn't have to be fixed all at once, like it's an ongoing process, and just give yourself a little bit more time, like just hang on like for today even if you even if that's all that it takes. So Donnie, you sent me this great podcast and Mark Groves Sarah Baldwin podcast, and it talks about healing your nervous system. So where I am in ten years, I'm not prepared for the successes or the happiness of the joys that I'll have in ten years because I haven't healed my current nervous system to be able to hold that. When I heard that, I was like, oh wait, that makes it, Like that makes so much sense of these little things, you know, Like so I just have to keep doing today the best I can do today, and you repeat that tomorrow and in ten years I'll be ready for whatever it is the universe has for me and then presents itself to me. And it's like that makes sense. But it's those little nuggets of things that you hear, you know. And when I got sober, someone said that it's like your elevator is going down. You can get off at any time, Like, oh, I have a choice, huh, you know it's yeah. I love those little like wisdom soundbites. Well, we get them. We get them all the time, especially when we're having conversations like this. I don't know about YouTube, but I just always believe that God or spirit or whatever you choose to call it, speaks through the mouths of people. For me, that's where I hear it because I can still struggle to decipher if I'm sitting quietly, is that my head or is that God talking or where? You know, what's the difference, But where I do hear it, and especially when I start to hear the same shit over and over again, it's like, there's a reason why you're why you're why you're seeing that, and why you're hearing that, and even like because you know, life is a mirror. I would always, you know, have this thing with my coaching clients. If there was something that was repeatedly happening into them, I would say, well, where are you doing that? Because that's usually I mean, we're the common denominator. And if you believe in karma, what you put out comes back to you. So if something keeps happening to you, there's somewhere in your life you're doing that same thing, you know. And so it's like this is why we especially this time of the year, as we get into the new year, it's the time to like take a real hard, deep, honest look within yourself so that you can see what, like what's stopped you. Like that's the big thing I'm talking about, like leading up to the new Year's like, Okay, what's one thing you need to stop? Just one thing? What is that one thing that is in the way that is stopping you and getting in the way of you know, and just simplify that, and then what do we need to do? What would your life look like if you were able to let that go? You know? Yeah, And I think to your point about you know, like what am I doing? Like why is this pattern continuing? Sometimes it's not that we're I found that it's not that like we're doing anything, but we're allowing it, you know what I mean. Like it's not like I am putting out negative or whatever it is, but I'm allowing other people to speak to me in a certain way or like you know, and I had to have this conversation someone with someone that's going to be in my life for the next twelve years, and I had to have this conversation. And I said, at least and I'm like, you can't talk to me like this anymore. If you do, I'm going to hang up the phone or I'm going to walk away. This is my boundary and if you And it took a couple of times for me to be like, I'm I'm not doing it. I'm not doing it, you know what I mean. So it's it's not maybe i'm you know, someone's not doing it, but it's the allowing. And it's that continuous pattern of allowing someone else to disrespect or angry or whatever it is. And that's hard too because if that's what we're used to or a patterning or what we've been to it, it's really hard to break that. Yeah, on that topic of you had talked about You're getting your Nervous System Ready, which is a download marcros podcast. Listen to all of his episodes. He's been on our podcast and he's a friend of ours and just amazing but yeah, she was talking about how we need to train our parents and our teachers to train them to train their nervous systems and get them ready. But there's that aspect of it, and then there's this whole idea of like the upper limit and training our upper limit. Right, So our upper limit is what we think we're worthy of receiving. So when all the abundance and all the good comes into our lives, we have this up limit. And once we surpassed that upper limit, if we don't believe we're worthy of it, we will do something or do nothing. You talked about actions, but sometimes it's also the inaction, the procrastination. I mean, that's the word I think about me when I think about procrastination, and so this is the word, you know, And this is like for anybody listening, if you're just listening and not watching, when I said procrastination, they both like, you know, made a face like me too, So you know, if you're there too, like and you're beating yourself up for doing it, like pretty normal these days, especially in a world that like we've just been really really distracted, and that's why we have to have these practices. Well, Darren, that goes back to what you were saying about smashing it. You know, we were talking about this, Donnie when we lost you for a second. He was talking about, like the good starts to happen, then you kind of self sabotage. It's like, nope, nope, I'm not ready. I'm not from this. Smash this with a hammer, you know, yeah, or like yeah, my mom My mom used to say that when I would start to get sober and do things well and things would start coming into my life, She's like, it's almost like you're doing it on purpose. And it was because I did not believe in myself because of the way I was acting and the way I was living, So my self worth was shot so that if any good came in, it's like, oh no, no, I'm not worthy of this. And you know, I'll never forget. I sat with a fellow friend, a medicine leader, one of our friends, Don Bergeron, who when I went through a medicine journey, and you know, we got to the point where we were just talking about the relationship I was in and this attachment that I had to it, and I just you know, in the journey, there was this energy of attachment and he at the end said, do you believe that you are worthy of love? And I said yes? And he said do you believe that you are love? And I said yes? And he said, well, okay, then if it's not her, it's going to be something better because you're worthy of it now if you believe that. And Wow, like that moment when he said that, it broke an attachment that I had to her, which allowed me to actually be more connected to her now and trust that like I don't know what the fuck's going to happen a year from now, Like we don't know anything, and so yeah, I think it just comes back to that whole idea of self love. And you know, Hillary, I think we need to probably bring you back for round two because we've just like scratched the surface, and I know both of you are limited on time, but yeah, I think we could go in round two and just share a little bit more about your journey. And also I want to be able to give the audience just more tools and practical tools and you know, pull the coach out of you to teach us some stuff and our listeners. Yeah, drop, let's do this. Let's give us some nuggets, like just give us something to kind of land on, and then we'll just we'll try to bring you back like next next week, so we can go back to back. But I would say some nuggets to give people some positive momentum going into the end of the year. I think the easiest thing and that I used to roll myize out is gratitude list hands down. And it's like, but every single night before my son goes to bed, will I in bed with him and I say, what are the three things you're grateful for? Like just list, you know. And sometimes he's like hot wheels, you know, whatever, like things right, you know, because he's sick. But for me, the days that I'm feeling shitty, like just so our friend, don you know, I was talking to him like he's like, how are you. I'm like, you know, right now it's gray. It's really gray, little dark, like it's just tough right now. And he's like, be grateful for the darkness so you can really appreciate the joys when they come, not be great, you know, And I'm like, oh my gosh, you're right. That changed like that. It's like because without the lows, you can't appreciate the high. So the gratitude lists for me is exceptionally powerful, and not just writing it like what, but feeling it, like closing my eyes and saying, Okay, what am I grateful for? And some days it's a shower or you know, my phone so I can text a friend. Sometimes it's really not you know, it's really basic. Something else that has been incredibly helpful to me is when I'm feeling discontent and agitated, as I just sit in a chair with my feet on the floor, and sometimes i just hug myself and I close my eyes and I'll say, over and over and over and over and over, what do you need? What do you need? What do you need? Because my head's gonna tell me one thing. I need to work out, I need to move my body, I need to call, I need to do this, but my heart, I just I burst into tears before, and that's all I need is that release. I just need to cry. Or I need to take a bath. And sometimes it's eleven o'clock in the morning, and I'm like, who says you can't take a bath at eleven o'clock, you know? But we're like, oh, it's not nighttime, I can't do it. So I fill it up with magnesium, sults and all kinds of and I just get in and I get out, and I'm like, Okay, I feel better, you know. But it tells me. But I find that my intuition and my heart will tell me what I need versus my head, like what I should do or what I need to do, or what's on my list for today, Like when I'm just feeling really discontent, and I think one more thing is community. And I've talked about this a lot, and I'm sure you guys feel the same and said it a million times. But surrounding yourself with people who really have your back, you know. Like I have a group of five girlfriends that I call my board of directors, and they're all different. One is like a reverend and she smokes cigarettes. She's sober, and she's British and she's hilarious and I will call her if I want to just you know, complain event and get really funny. My other friend's super spiritual and she's you know, if I'm like I just need to. So I have this like group of women that I can go to at any time, you know. And so I think those are my three off the top of the head tips that have been really important that I could call it midnight if I had to and they'd pick up the phone, you know. But I didn't have that into Brie, I didn't have that. I mean when I was drinking everyone had been passed out right or not forig on the phone. Yeah. I think it's so important for people just to have fundamentals like those things that you just listed, because you know, maybe looking for that shift in your life or turning it around can seem daunting. It can seem like it's like, oh, man, like I really got to flip this thing on his head real quick. When it's like all you gotta do is start applying these little changes and allow those small victories to stack up and you look up one day and it's a huge victory. Your life changed and great things are happening, things you never imagined, and you don't feel like you have to blow it up, you know, like exactly like if I'm in self sabotaze mold, I will blow shit up, right. I will be like, I'm gonna send this email. I'm not you know, I'm gonna do what I'm gonna I'm gonna show them or I'm gonna whatever versus like I'm responsible for my actions and we as we like in the you know, the program. It's like there's sometimes I don't do things because I don't want to make an amends. However that sounds which is good because I'm not doing something that's harmful. But then I you know, I know if I do like, I'm gonna have to go back and say I'm sorry. There are times when I've said it and I'm like, I'm really sorry for the way I I spoke to you yesterday. But that's how we live our life because that's what we do when we get soberbs. You know what I've chosen to do when I got sober exactly. But yeah, I mean, we appreciate you joining us today. You know, I know you could be a lot of places, doing a lot of things, and for you to share your time and your energy with us, uh, we're grateful for that. It's like everybody else listening can definitely take something that's going to make their day better. And yeah, I just want thank you for coming on and we appreciate you. We hope to see you again soon, Like like Donnie said, thank you for having me. This has been great, all right, thank you guys. See y'all next week. Come Back Stories is a production of Inflection Network and iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.