I Want to Live

00:00:04 Speaker 1: Comeback Stories is a production of Inflection Network and iHeartRadio. All Right, welcome back everybody. We are here for another episode of Comeback Stories. So by acknowledging and honoring the month of October as mental health awareness Month, we are going to dive deep today on this topic with our guests, former Major leaguer turned mental health advocate Drew Robinson. So I first learned about Drew from the ESPN documentary Alive, The Drew Robinson Story, and since then our relationship has been coach client and I just consider him one of my close friends. He's been on our podcast before, but his story and what he's doing today in the world is absolutely worthy of a round two. So welcome back to the show, Drew Robinson. Yeah, appreciate it, man, I'm looking forward to it. I was pumped when he reached out. Always good catching up with you guys talking shop. Yeah, we will. There's a few guests that I think, you know, are worthy of every season coming on and just as your story obviously, but you're one of our friends and you're just a huge inspiration to vote thereon and I I mean my personal opinion, I don't know of a better comeback story on this planet than the one that you have, and that will we'll hear some and maybe we won't tell the whole story, so they can go back and listen to your initial episode. But I don't know, I mean just the comeback in itself, and I'll let you get into that a little bit. But most importantly, like what you're doing it, what you're doing with it now and how many lives you're impacting and saving is just it. It's amazing, man. I'm so proud of you. Yeah, man, I appreciate it. It's always nice to get those words of encouragement and reminders. I feel like I have a good fuel source of my own. But it's always nice hearing those things again. It only adds to the fire of trying to use it for good and learn one of the hardest lessons and teach or just kind of share some of the lessons learned from it. So it's always nice to be reiterated. I feel like I'm going to go right into coaching mode with you and ask you how did it? What came up for you as you were getting acknowledge there, Like how did that feel? If you're being honest? Yeah, man, I just think whether we like to admit it or not, no matter where we're at in our journey, we all like words of affirmation. We all like external validation. So I've experienced searching for that. To an extreme word, it actually becomes detrimental, but just kind of feeling like that that validation just kind of like I said that, those feel goods, feeling proud of myself seeing whatever work I'm doing reaching some people, which is really what I'm doing for So it just kind of feeds the ego a little bit, but not too much to where it's running my life. So it just kind of feels good to hear from others, especially if someone I respect so much. So, how are you doing, Like, how's your comeback going? What have you been up to since since last time we talked on the show. Yeah, it's going well, It's been a lot, but like I said, my life has definitely changed and changed for the better. But I'm good. I think it's been fun to take time to reflect, take time to talk about it openly like this, because it really just kind of enforces reinforces all the lessons I'm trying to learn and trying to seek more clearly for myself. So I'm doing well. There's times where I get to have to learn or have to relearn the same lessons. But I think overall, I'm enjoying the fruits of my mental health labor or fruits of my work by putting in the healing work, and I'm being able to find a little bit more clarity, a little bit more stability, a little bit more perspective each day. When you talk about lessons that might be being repeated, like what's could you give me an example or an instance of like a lesson that maybe you're not learning that keeps repeating itself, that keeps showing up in life for you. Yeah, I mean, we're going to start with that one, But no, I think I think the most common one that comes in big and small waves is just the idea of control. I'm constantly having to be reminding myself or reframing the idea of like letting go at times and not having to control or obsessively control every little niok and cranny in my life, every circumstance, every scenario, everything I'm doing and try to make it exactly how I want. So. I can't tell you how many times I journal or tell people or think to myself. The quote that you and I work on so much is which is detached from any expect outcome. So I think the lesson of just like letting go and not need always to be in control and trusting God, trusting the universe, trusting myself that things will just kind of work out, and creating a little bit more of that space for peace in my mind. For those I don't know, those tedious everyday occurrences that I sometimes trip up, tripover. So for the audience that maybe has not heard your story, how do we condense this? So I definitely recommend anybody that's listening, because you're not going to get the full story. You're gonna want to listen to it on the first episode we had with Drew, and then you can also check out his ESPN documentary Alive. I would listen to it on our podcast first and then watch the show. I think it'll be a good I think we dove pretty deep, and I love the emotion that was that came along for that first episode that we did together. But yeah, maybe you can just give us I don't know, is there a cliff Notes version of your story? Yeah, for sure. I think it's a good idea of listening to something before him, because my articulation and my understanding has gotten so much deeper than when I did that initial filming. So having some more context going into it, with the visuals and more of the professional setup, I think does help. I know it's helped me when I rewatched at times. But yeah, I guess the condensed version. I I'm from Las Vegas. I grew up playing sports my whole life, and I was always undersized and had an older brother that was the exact opposite, who was like the prodigy of his age group his whole life, and kind of growing up in his shadow. Growing up trying to keep up with him and just trying to prove myself just kind of set me up for not feeling like good enough at times. And when I did eventually hit my growth spurt, which was pretty late, I and You got lucky enough to become be drafted by the Texas Rangers out of high school, that like, still not good enough, still kind of in the shadow of somebody or something. The comparison, the insecurities, the people pleasing. All these things that I kind of naturally learned throughout my childhood followed me into my adulthood, and I was lucky enough to play parts of twelve professional seasons, with parts of three of them at the major league level and achieved my childhood dream. But my career and really my life path turned into another example of helpings didn't always go as planned, and I've learned now that that's not always such a bad thing, but in the moment, that wasn't necessarily case. And a couple current events that I called the three Ingredients for rest of a disaster that happened leading up to the quarantine in twenty twenty got me to really dark place mentally and emotionally, and I was able to convince myself my life wasn't worth living anymore, and unfortunately attempted suicide in April of twenty twenty and fortunately survived, had an awakening, committed my life and myself to finding the healing, finding the support, and asking for help for real for once, maybe a comeback to baseball afterwards, And since then, I've just been doing anything I can to try to help people learn from my mistake or my lesson learned, whatever way they want to look at it. I just my goal is to just try to help anyone not feel the way I felt or experience things I experienced internally beforehand, and let them know that I could have been I could be doing this, I could have found this healing, this journey without the attempt to attach my name. So I'm really just trying to heal out loud to prevent others from dying silently. Man Drew, I appreciate you as always just being the man that you are in a time that we get to talk or spend Man, and I hope people can see from this episode and you coming back to the show that you have an amazing comeback and an amazing story, but it doesn't just end right there that you're still continuing to learn. You're still continuing to live. And just like with Donnie and I with the show, we feel like with comeback stories, like the meaning of this show is evolving some like not only is it the comeback story bouncing back from your adversity, but the idea of like keep coming back, like no matter what it is that's in your life that you're going up against, like keep coming back to your practices, keep coming back to your center. You know what I'm saying. And I look at the shirt that you're wearing right now, it says KFG. If you want to elaborate on on what that means, and also, you know, how does that apply to your life today? What are you still trying to to keep going through? Yeah? KFG. Just it's acronym for keep having going, Yeah, yeah, keep sucking going. It's just a blunt reminder, a little aggressive reminders, keep going, whether I'm feeling some type of way of that day or not. Just another one of my pieces of apparel that has little reminders on it. But I love that that statement I questioned because that's probably the other main lesson that I am reminded of often is that it is a continuous process. It's not a the switch that goes off that one day I wake up healed, or I find a new connection or new meaning to something or learning lesson and then all of a sudden I have it. It's like not a tool that I just kind of obtained. It's a continuous thing. And I just like to always think about the concept of like, it's not healed or fixed like the ed to any word. It's the ig part of healing, fixing and learning, growing all these things, because at one point in my journey after my attempt, when I had a very controlled environment. There wasn't much on my plate because I was just physically healing at that time and people were taking care of me physically and emotionally. There was a time where I was naively believing that I was never going to have a bad day again. How could I if I ever started feel something, I just look back to my my near death experience in survival experience, and whatever I'm going through can't be that bad, so I never have a bad day again. But these last two and a half years, I've learned that that's not the case, and I've try to teach myself, learn myself, and try to help others learn that once you commit this could commit yourself to these things, it really is a never ending journey, and it becomes an empowering journey instead of a daunting journey. And it's something that I find a lot of joy and for filming in, although at times it does get incredibly overwhelming and stressful, but that's also all part of it as well. What are some of your tools I know you have. I know you're armed, and you've been doing a ton of work to sharpen these tools and have them readily available in your toolbox. But you know, dere Darren and I and Drew and I, we talk a lot about pattern interrupts and how everything is really our where our tension goes, where our tension goes, energy flows, and so what works for you, like what has been working for you as far as those little tools where you can redirect your focus and look at your t shirt or some of the deeper, more extensive or intensive work that you've done around healing. Yeah, I think the deeper one that I'm incredibly proud of is just dedicating or committing to therapy work. I find a lot of pride and joy fulfillment, passion and committing to that. These last three and a half years, I maybe have gone one time where I've gone longer than a week in between sessions, and I just make it a non negotiable that I'm going to go to therapy and talk about it openly and brag about it and continue to learn from it and explore it in those sessions. And then I think the other two that I would consider a part of my trifecta for my own self care is exercise and journaling. So combination of therapy, regular exercise and journaling are like my three active go tos, and then the in the moment smaller things. Definitely our pattern interrupts, like you said, and really just like as if I'm talking to myself as a different person conversation with myself, So that internal voice talking to myself, thinking to myself, or catch trying to catch myself thinking to myself as if I'm someone that I love or something that I care about, because fortunately for me, a lot of my troubles is because I get so hard on myself and I just say like unfathomable things to myself over minor inconveniences, and I just belittle myself and I would never ever talk that way to anyone else that I care about. So trying to catch myself and talk to myself or think to myself the same way that I would to a friend who's going through something or someone I care about who made a little mistake and really helps me get back to the big picture of perspective, because a lot of times it starts with just asking a question like is this gonna disrupt your piece in five minutes or is this gonna affect things a week from now? And a lot of times the question the answer is no and allows me to kind of like relax in that moment. So pattern interrupts self talk habits and like reframing practices that just kind of take my attension off of that initial trigger are the smaller in the moment practices I like to do, and I think the combinations thats like somatic stuff. So like whenever I'm biling stress and I catch myself in those moments, usually a very innate subconscious thing that follows is a really deep breath that I'm not trying to do, but that like bigger breath and kind of reset the nervous system allows me to kind of like calm down a little bit a little bit. But at the same time, the continuous process is that I'm not great at it, but it's definitely getting better than it was three and a half years ago. When I hear about your trifecta moving, writing, talking, and it sounds like freedom, Like that's that's freedom. Right to move your body is to move stuck energy. When you're moving and breathing with purpose, your your energy can't be destroyed, but it can be shifted, right, it can be moved, And I think that's the importance of movement. I mean every morning, it's like very clear why I move my body. It's all for my mind. It's so that I can be free from myself, ultimately just getting out of my own way. But moving writing. We've talked a lot about on our show about journaling, how the process of it's getting out what's inside of you, because if you don't get it out, it's going to turn on you and eat you up from the inside out. So there's the writing component and then there's the talking component of it. So I think it's cool that I'm just weaving in this. I heard the word freedom as you talked about those three and I think also the quote of to be free is to free others. And I look at Darren and I look at you, Drew, and it's like, this is what you guys are doing in your life, through the mess and through the pain. So I'm not sure if I even have a question in there, but I just I really want to well first acknowledge the both of you, but I think like this is really what sets us free. Would you guys agree? Yeah, I think the word release came to mind when you're talking about freedom. Those acts that I do or those acts that I do are really just a space to allow me to release a lot of those things or be more free because one quote that one of our team psychologists always says that the body always keeps score. So if you're not getting it out, if you're not purging it, all the ugliness, all the unorganizedness, your body's going to remember it so that next minor inconvenience you might react disproportionately to the inconvenience because your body is storing all those things from the past, and you might just have a blow up over something so small, which I say you or other people might, when really it's like, that's what happens with me. So if I'm not releasing those things in my journal in therapy, no matter how irrational or dramatic I feel it might be, when I release it in those safe spaces, it allows me to have a little bit more free up space to react or respond in a way that I'm more okay with or not as triggered with. And I really think the intention of past it too is so important. Like the exercise part, Like the intention that I have with my exercise has completely shifted from when I was eighteen just trying to look good without a shirt like I do it, like you said, for my mental health, for my stability and my emotional stamina. So trying to create some adversity, intentional adversity, to try to be present. If I'm not present, I might get hurt if I'm not paying attention, having to turn off the noise of putting my phone down, all those things, All the intention that I put into my or what I think I'm doing it for, is way different than it was ten years ago, Drew. I I think of you. I think of you pretty often when I think of myself, and I want to know how you feel about this, Like me being somebody who's like on the front lines for recovery, us and mice on the front lines for mental health. You know, people are looking to us for inspiration. We've had, you know, great feats in you know, mental strength, mental toughness. Do you. I sometimes can feel like whenever there's like a slip in my routines or any time whereas like mentally I don't really feel that strong. I kind of feel all over the place. I kind of feel like a fraud because I'm kind of like the guy that's out front. You know, leading the charge like do you do you feel that way? Like how do you if you do, how do you keep yourself from dwelling in that space for so long? I'm asking for me because sometimes I find myself caught in that. Yeah, No, that's something that's obviously it's a new like ripple to the concept. That's something I've been doing my whole life is guilt trip myself for all kinds of things. But this, this new part of my identity that is attached to me definitely has allowed or created a new level of or new concept of guilt tripping myself into how dare you feel down? Or how dare you feel stressed? Or how dare you feel ungrateful? Or whatever the negative thought is when you survive what you survive, or you have what you have, or you're living a life that you're living, and that like internal monster just beats me down. It makes me feel so I don't know, regretful or guilty for feeling down ever. But that's where the work comes in, the fruits of my labor comes in of understanding that the acceptance part or just like anything, all the concept I'm learning is adding up to the idea of knowing that I can't expect myself to be at my one hundred percent best every second of every day, and that's okay, Like this is just a temporary feeling. Having that understanding has allowed me to get through so many times of uncertainty or just internal struggle or extreme internal struggle because it's so applicable to a lot of scenarios. So just kind of understanding that it's temporary. But like you said, I say these things as if I'm not struggling with them at times, But there is that little voice in the back of my head that is trying to tell me the things that I've learned, or try to help me reinforce the things that I've learned to help them not feel as severe in those moments. But yeah, it's something I definitely still struggle with. I I talk a lot about how for twenty seven years I became a vet at pessimism and ugliness and being mean to myself. So I really am still just a three year rookie, yet becoming a little bit more loving and caring and accepting of myself and allowing some of this the stuff to shine through. But it doesn't always happen as efficiently as I would like. But it's all part of it, right, yeah, I mean, man, that's a good way to pick to paint the picture. It's like I mean, at least in my sobriety slash spiritual slash mental health journey, I'm six years old, so that makes me like a first grader, and I'm first graders are just kind of still scattered all over the place sometimes, so exactly, I love that picture. I think that I really forget it. It's like another language. It's like when I'm if I were to try to learn a full different langth which like however long it takes to learn the first like chunk of it, I don't think I would find myself like judging myself for not knowing right away. So it's all about the learning processes, like thinking that in terms of time. It's like like you said, at some point I would if I try to learn French, at some point I would be speaking on the same level as a four year old. But in that moment, I probably are that example, I probably want to judge myself or guilt trip myself for not being great at it right away. But I do that when I'm having an off day with the best of them, to be honest facts, I think first graders can bring a level of curiosity and a willingness to want to learn at the same time. And I mean clearly you guys have both done that and are constantly looking at ways that you can learn and grow and level up your life, both on the field, on the stage off the field. But Drew, I wanted to go back because I talk about this so Darren and I talk about this so often on the PODCAS cast about comeback stories and the stories that we tell ourselves, and before I met you, I would give this extreme example of like the only thing that matters is the story that we tell ourselves. And so you know when you came into my life and I hold, I heard your story, maybe you can walk us through this part of your decision to attempt was like what when did this story start? Like do you remember one time saying I don't I don't want to live or I want to kill myself? And then like can you just walk us through like how normal that day was because this is just what you said you were going to do. Yeah, I mean, I I can pinpoint on a pinpoint, but I can just think back to really early days of childhood of just reacting same way, similar way as to how I reacted react to things as a grown adult now. So I think it's always kind of been an under lying pattern that's been there. I think one of my biggest things was just my insecurity with myself of just comparison. Started with comparing baseball player to baseball player and being trying to be a better baseball player. But the more the deeper I die, the more I realize I'm doing that in every other area of my life too, So I think that was a huge contributor which led to insecurity of self esteem and just overall confidence. And to make up for that, I would try to put on a front of what I thought confidence was when anyone was looking, so then I would have to deal with the consequences of that of not being my authentic self. So when the when I stepped out of the spotlight or stuff got home, then I would just feel unauthentic and just like not proud of myself. So then I would have to deal with that that down feeling of guilt and just being a fraud or imposter or whatever. But yeah, I think all those things led to a lot of people pleasing as well to try to make sure that Poli liked to me because I was insecure with all those things, and that just created this big compilation of just unhealthy attachments to every life experience that I was going through, and yeah, for me, it eventually just got to a point where I was I had I had thought at different times in my life. I remember a time, probably like around twenty twenty one, there was a time where I was like, actually, I realized I was thinking about suicide. Not in as active as a way as I was in twenty twenty, but there was definitely a couple moments throughout my life where I did have a pretty blunt question like what's the fing point here? But it wasn't until February of twenty twenty after that second ingredient, like I mentioned earlier, of at that time, I called off an engagement to someone who cared about me and I cared about her, and I felt like I had ruined someone else's life and ruined someone else's peace, not just myself. So I saw the consequences of my internal world a role in someone else's and that really just created the ball to be rolling down that moment that hill towards the end, and basically like February third, the day after I called the engagement, I had the first thought like what am I? Like? It would be so much easier if I just didn't have to deal with this, and the only way that I can think of is taking my life. And from that moment on until April of twenty twenty April sixteenth, it was basically on my mind ninety nine percent of time, and like you said, because there was something I decided to do at some point the day of it really did it. Really was the most casual way that someone can probably picture such a severe thing to do it to be happening. So I wasn't planning on doing it the night before. I just kind of woke up and did it the same or I was going throughout the day like it normally was at that point before, just having combative thoughts, wondering how I could do it, if I should do it, why I should do it, and then just some point in the afternoon I was like, all right, I'm doing it, and then it was no emotional build up. It was really more like a relief, like I'm finally going to be out of my pain and there was no like, oh my gosh, it's happening, or an emotional cinematic build up. It was just a very casual thing, just like I did anything else in my life, which is really one of the more comfortable parts of my story when I think about it. But that's just kind of the reality of it. And it was because I was just so exhausted at that point from my racing thoughts. So what happens after you pull the trigger? Yeah, yeah, I did. I mean, that is the most confusing thing ever. But that's where that let go concept, like I mentioned earlier, comes into play in the most extreme, very way, or the heaviest level possible. Is not having to know why other than just trusting in God, trusting the universe that I don't know why. But I was looking at something, I pulled the trigger, and then I was still looking at it afterwards, thinking I missed, thinking it was a blank round, just thinking maybe it takes longer than what I've seen in the movies, and just being completely confused and not knowing what's going on. So just sitting there for the next twenty hours waiting for the end to happen, and when it eventually didn't finally had that big picture moment of like maybe I'm supposed to survive this, or maybe not even supposed to at that point is more like maybe I want to survive this, so let me call for help. And yeah. It was the most confusing twenty hours, the most painful twenty or twenty hours, but the moment after my first surgery where I was stable, it was the most incredible couple hours because I finally had the most extreme version of let go ever and finally was like bloodgates open and tell people I love them, to tell people who I really am and how deeply I think about things, how deeply I care about things, and not being ashamed of it for the first time. It was a very freeing feeling. But important thing with that story is or just that that part of the story is I don't like to portray it as it needed to take that It's something that I could have been doing all along, and I could have had those exact same experiences without the attempt attached to my name. And that's why I talk about this is because I could have learned these same lessons without that. So I don't want someone to have to go through that to thinking that it's going to give them the same experience that I've had, because the reality is it's probably not going to happen like the way it did for me, because on paper, I shouldn't have survivor has arrived. So the story you had been telling yourself on the first attempt, I want to die, and you make that attempt and you don't die, and then you have an opportunity, right, gun in one hand, a phone in the other hand, sitting on the couch, the same place you attempted the first time, and then you choose, you choose to ask for help, right And then I'm sure it's like I know a lot of it's probably uh, you don't remember a lot after that, but remember waking up in the hospital and wanting to live. So then you start telling yourself, I want to live. So I guess I just want to highlight like the power of our thoughts and the stories that we tell ourselves, and like you're the way you walk us through that. Again. It's just it's so riveting and I'm so glad you're here, and I'm so glad that you've you've turned the pain into like purpose and are helping so many people listening to you on the podcast with uh Ryan on the Pivot, I'm like, who is this dude? Just like the way that you are to articulate things, right, But I think it's beautiful because for all three of us, you know, we get to kind of teach this stuff back. And they say the quickest way to learn something is to teach it back. So we're talking about this stuff all day long, every day. But to hear you and to hear like just the way you are we're articulating things, and how great of a speaker you've become. Like yeah, you're you're, you're, you're set up for life because of your your failed attempts. Yeah, well I think it's because of the work after the failed attempt. Like I said, I don't like to give credit to the actual attempt, but yeah, I think it's it's just another reminder, another example, like I said earlier, of how things don't always have to go as planned, because I mean four years ago, if I had an interview, I was always the backup or not a pretty non factor in any big league game. But there was media everywhere, So there was times where I was being interviewed after the game with one little like phone camera or like a makeshift microphone, or like being asked to go talk to the youth baseball team before the game, and like I couldn't speak. I was so insecure that I had a stutter in those times. I didn't have a stutter in regular life, but like a regular day to day life, but like as soon as the camera got on me, as soon as I got in front of a group and talk how to talk to anybody other than like my close friends or teammates or baseball personnel, I would start stuttering because I was so afraid of saying the wrong thing or messing up. And not to brag, but like now I'm speaking as a public speaker at times, and it's like just another sign of how like you can improve in things, you can release things to get better, to learn. It's just one of those another one of those reminders that like never saying every kind of thing. And if someone would have told me four years ago that would be doing anything close to what I've been up to the last three years, I would have honestly laughed at them. But yeah, I think it's just something that's I don't know, something I just like, like I said earlier, trying to heal it loud, diferent others from dying silently. And really, what I'm doing is just like you said, just teaching what I'm or preaching what I've been taught from people like you and Darren and my psychiatrist and anyone else who's willing to kind of get deep with me, and just trying to share that with anyone else who's willing to listen. Due, I want to know what what what has it been like? I know you had a relationship with and working for the giants and being alongside their journey. What was it like for you to be in that mental health role and have a relationship ship with guys on the team? Cause I know, like, if I'm putting myself in your shoes, my mind's going to be like okay, Like I want to build connection with these guys, But how do I like not overdo it. How do I not like overstep and like barge into their space, but at the same time like be there for them, be a resource for them? Like how did you grow to find comfortability in that role? Yeah? I mean I'm still learning how to do that, but yeah, I think the first year I really found myself where I look back and see that I was really holding back because of that concept, like I don't want to just coming hot as a mental health guy and just talking nonsense and making it look like I'm just doing my job and trying and check a box, even though I genuinely cared about trying to help. I didn't want to just be a one trick pony. So I try to keep it casual. I try not to be the inconvenience that I was making up in my head. But I think I really just find a blend of just being one of the guys, just being another baseball mind, but blending some of those those questions or those talks in those everyday conversation, because I think that's the most important part when it comes to months of health workers. Like for me, one of my biggest missions is just making it a casual thing where it's like, yeah, I'm asking about how your night was last night we're at the field, or asking about your nice pair of shoes, and then just letting you know really quickly and like the most casual way, like, man, those are nice shoes and blah blah, but hey, also like just a reminder, like if you ever need anything, I'm here, and then that let's go take around balls like just a quick little seed planting and just try to blend it in there and not come in so so hot as like a fake professional or someone who's got all the answers, Just like I'm in the trenches with you and I'm willing to kind of talk it through or listen or analyze or whatever you might need. But I'm not gonna, you know, force it on you. But I am going to mix in reminders here and there because it's important and for me, I there was times where I was feeling a certain way but showing that I was totally fine. So someone who might not be showing symptoms could be going through the thick of their depression or anxiety or whatever it might be that time. So quick little reminders, quick little seed planting that I'm ready now, or I'm ready a month from now, a year from now, just whatever you need. I care about you, and then can also talk chopped about literally anything else. There's a line in your suicide letter that I know you wrote that you say, I hope you guys realize you couldn't have seen this coming to prevent it because of how hard I was trying to hide it, and I want you to touch on that. I think that's powerful. I'm assuming you're talking to everybody or your family there, but just the quiet crisis that happens, and the importance of people like yourself speaking out on mental health and in a sense kind of normalizing it and breaking the stigma. Yeah, I think it's really like I was trying to hide it, and also just how ashamed I was to be feeling that way or thinking that way. I again, on paper, I analytically, my analytical brain was not allowing me to feel the way I was feeling because of the circumstances I live and I had. Even though I wasn't exactly where I wanted to be in my career, I was pretty close. I had a supportive family even though they were separated. Like on paper, I had something. I had a life that a lot of people would die for. So how dare I feel the way I was feeling? So it wasn't It was a blend of me trying to hide that feeling but also just being too ashamed to share it because I was afraid of being misunderstood or judged for feeling that way while living that life. But yeah, it's something that, like I said, creates that obstacle that I think a lot of people feel at times. And the message is just like not being as a shamed because at the end of the day, something I've learned so often these last three years after speaking out about this stuff is it doesn't matter the age, or the group or the some one I'm talking to, It doesn't matter who they are, where they're from, age, sex, whatever. We're all so much more like than we realized. So it's like, if someone's really going to be honest with you and non judgementsil they will be able to tell you that they have felt a similar way, just on a different level, from a completely different external circumstance. So not being ashamed to share things that are weighing you down, because again, at the end of the day, we've all experienced stress, We've all experienced overwhelmed in some form of anxiety or worry or fear, just on completely different levels. So talking about it before again it builds up and becomes that weight or becomes something that our body is just constantly defending ourselves from is so important. So I was just too ashamed to share it because I was so terrified of being misunderstood and judged. And I knew that I had a very good group of people around me. And that's why even though and in that moment of writing that note, I still I knew it was going to be traumatizing. I knew it was going to be heartbreaking for the people that cared about me, But I was trying to do everything I could to just make it a little bit less hard in letting them know that there's no one missed anything, like no one caused this is no one else, Like this is me and my decision because of my mindset that's created this pessimistic monster, and it's not because of anybody else. So please don't feel guilty on top of any kind of grief that you're going to be feeling. It's powerful. I think there's another another quote from you that I've heard, when you're talking about vulnerability, saying like, as someone who was trying to show fake confidence your whole life, just letting go and being vulnerable, you ended up finding the confidence you had been always dying for. And when I heard you say that, I'm like, yeah, that's what happened with me, Like, Yeah, that's what happened with Darren. I mean on a human level, people could just look at Darren as just an athlete, and you know, maybe some people do, but there's there's so much more. And it was in him share in his story, and it was in you sharing your story and yours. Dude, you were like a year like post off after your incident, right that you did that documentary and the way that you told your story, you know, a year out from that, I was like, this guy is going to like help a lot of people. Yeah, no, I appreciate it. I mean we did the filming like like five months afterwards. It was pretty pretty fast, pretty immediate. And that's why again, like I said, the articulation and like my own understanding of the reasonings weren't as as deep or as clear then, But that's the whole point of like continue to talk about it, because I just keep on finding deeper connections, anchors, clarity, all these things that free up understanding for my reality in any given moment. So yeah, like I said, I never would have thought, but it's something that I'm continuously trying to to to learn and help others with. I mean, as we're in a mental health awareness month, I'm somebody that you know is aware that people have their own unique battles and things they go through on a day to day basis, but as a collective whole, and how everything that is behind mental health and what all that is. What do you think is like, is there something that you can pinpoint it is is something that needs to be taken to another level or something that is missing for people as they're trying to begin their mental health journey or sustain their mental health journey, is or something that sticks out to you that could use some change or could use some maintenance, some upkeep. Yeah. Again, I really think the casualness of it is so important. I think the misconception well two things, the casual like the misconception of how casual it can be, and the expectation part of it. So I think just from my own personal experience and from conversation I've had with people, is that when someone finally admits they need help or starting their own process with it, I think there is a level of expectation that they're going to be fixed or healed by just showing up or just admitting not realizing that it again is a continuous, never ending journey and at the very beginning of it that is incredibly daunting. I know at times, in the thick of one of my ways of downness, I do have a very daunting feeling attached to the work that I'm getting ready to show up to with my therapy work or a coaching call or just a conversation or a social setting. But the expectation that it's going to help me right then, I don't think necessarily serves me or serves anyone else that has that expectation, because it's unfair, it's not realistic, so it just kind of sets us up for failure. But then again the casual so that where it's like it doesn't need to be this complete lifestyle makeover overnight. You don't need to quit every bad habit, you don't need to do everything. It's like, take a small step first and create momentum to then be able to take on some of the bigger things and the bigger obstacles and the deeper healing and starting small and again implementing it in a casual way. Like I said, it's such an easy thing to just ask how someone's doing. We do it in almost every conversation, but like actually being like no, like really like what's the last week been like for you? Or like what's been the hardest thing this last week or what's been the most fulfilling. Just create an open minded or explorate exploration kind of dialogue and if they're not ready, then that's fine too. Also detachment expectation as a support and making it more casual. It's like, yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna eat my unhealthy treats that I love to do every day. I'm gonna watch shows or watch TV. I'm not the biggest person with that, but like whatever they do that they feel like is a minor thing, but it's a consistent thing. Being able to do those things. Also being able to be that same person in whatever your social setting is, but then being able to like mix in a couple different acts and creating that momentum to make it a more casual thing, like yeah, I'm going to go to dinner night, but I got to be home soon, I got to be home early because I have a therapy session tomorrow. And then not being ashamed about it, just being like, yeah, that's the reality, no shame my game kind of thing and making it more casual instead of like I need to be Buddha tomorrow and I need to be Gandhi lie by by the end of the afternoon or otherwise it's a failure. So I think the expectation and and like making it more casual, I think is will do more work of any distigma moving the needle than like any big collective like event or thing like that. So that's where my thoughts took me with that one. Yeah, there's plenty of the therapy sessions. I've sat down on the couch outter and just been like like even heavier than when I went in. So yeah, absolutely, Like I said, thing is like again, we all have all been there, whether it's in therapy or not, Like how many times have you come home after a stressful day or like, oh my gosh, let me just go to sleep, like everyone and anyone that says no is a liar. Like there's only two kinds of people that's like that and liars. So we're we're all experiencing a lot more things similarly than we might realize. What are you What are you hearing out there? When you go and speak and maybe you do a Q and A or people stop you afterwards, Like what's the common struggle? What are you hearing the most of from teenagers adults? Yeah, I think the theme I don't know about specific things, but I think the theme is just again expectations and comparisons, which maybe that sticks out to me because everyone is usually a mirror, like I don't know, I know, you guys know the concept of like everything that we're experiencing is really just the mirror of our own internal world. So maybe that's why it sticks out to me because I still struggle with those things. But expecting things to go a certain way, expect them to go your way, go perfectly, or just comparing things, and again I think that kind of just correlates with the expectation, like comparing something and expecting you to be better than that thing or be able to do something similar to that good thing or whatever, or I'm doing that worse than that thing. So I just think the theme is usually comparisons and expectations, which again two specific of expectations than anything is really just either limiting or set you up for failure. So like, if you get what you're expecting in a way that could be limiting. There might be something better available if you weren't expecting it to go that way, So like not having such specific expectations in comparison, and it's obvious, right, like the world of social media and media in general, expecting things to be a certain way because you've seen it happen before is fair. And then comparisons to other people's lives and set ups and things like that, it's obvious, but it always seems to be an undertone of expectation or comparison to any kind of question I get when it comes to what the struggles are? What do you say to somebody where the burden of their life has gotten so heavy to where they're they're the the thoughts are starting, like what do you say to somebody? Like where do you go? What's what's what's your common response? My common My first response is just a reminder or a lesson, like if it's the first time they're hearing it, that everything is temporary. It doesn't matter how severe it feels, how heavy it feels, how drastic it is. I mean, I think that people who have like unfathomable things happen to them that are they have no control over. It's hard for me to say that to somebody because I haven't experienced that. It's all been like internal like it's been put on by myself, so it's easy for me to have that choice. But again, at the end of the day, feelings are temporary, experiences are temporary. We don't obtain success, we don't get to obtain or like memories or experiences like we don't have those things at our grasp at any time. So knowing that it's temporary, no matter how consistent it's felt, you can probably go back to ten years before that where it wasn't that exact way. So it is temporary, which I feel like kind of creates that seed or plant the seed for like some faith or that little voice in the back of my mind. I know that quote helps me is like this is temporary, like even though it might not feel very real in the moment or in the thick of like some negative thinking, but it is happening where it's like creating a little bit of like a glimmer of hope of like, okay, one always be this way, maybe tomorrow or maybe next week or maybe next next month, but it is going to end and it's worth pushing through or like the shirt says, keep going because it is temporary. So but it does take action to do that. But I think the other likeskng creet things is just that the habits that we've been talking about, whether it's finding some kind of hobby that allows a different kind of outlet, or committing to therapy, or committing to social connections and like doing some new things, or creating neuroplasticity, geather your comfort zone, whatever it may be. I think it's always just important to try new things and to have the understanding that it's temporary and like, no matter how dramatic it may feel, anyone that cares about you, or anyone that's been around you would rather hear about your the heaviness of whatever feels irrational than attend your funerals. So people would always just rally hear from you instead of about you. So temporariness hear from you instead of about you, and some kind of actionable thing that gets you out of your comfort zone to kind of switch things up a little bit. That's a bar. That's a bar right there. That's what I end all. If anyone's listening that might be going to one of my talks, you don't need to come anymore, because that's how I that's how I drop the Mic usually is I'd rather hear from you instead about you. Man, Well, I just want to say thank you again. Like every time we get to have a conversation or or face to face man like, it's always left feeling seen and understood in a way, even if the conversation isn't super heavy or super deep, like I just that energy is there, man, and I appreciate that about you and just a real life example of continuing to write your comeback story looks like it's great sometimes, sometimes it sucks. Sometimes I'm afraid. Sometimes I'm strong and courageous. So it's just like that overall picture and making it real and authentic. Man, I just want to say thank you. Bro. Yeah, man, I love that. I love that so much. I agree with all of it. So I honestly appreciate you guys having me. I again love talking shop with you guys and getting deep and learning new things every time we talk. So I appreciate you guys as well. Yeah, as I sit back and just listen to Darren give you Drew some flowers, it's just cool to sit back. I mean, if I were to paint a picture of the model coaching client, I think, well, you two would be like exactly it, and and there's a reason, like I believe that the world is changed by your example, not your opinion. And you guys, you guys live this like you're living recovery, you're living mental health. You guys are out there like but most importantly, you're you're doing the work, like the dedication to your journaling practice. I mean, I don't know, Drew. Drew might have you a little bit, Darren with with with his journaling. He takes it to the next level. But then again, you got all the songwriting tied into so I'm sure you guys can tell you. But I only get to share that. I only share the ones that come out nicely. I'm not sharing the ones they are super messy and not grammatically correct. So yeah, of course I'm only going to share the ones like nicely gets to get to. He's able to do it in a three minute, quick, concise way, which is even more impressive because really, what I just do is blobber on for pages and pages. Well yeah, but regardless, I think again, it's just cool to be on here with you two. Who when I when I think about the ideal, and you know, I have this thing where many of my coaching clients turn into my closest friends. And I don't know if there's a line that's crossed there, but I don't really give a shit because I would take you guys as friends over like anything else, for the rest of my life. And uh yeah, I mean, I mean, you guys live it. And even though I might be your coach at times, I'm telling you, guys are teaching me more than you'll ever know. Love it all mirror man, all meres just just trying to share the love, just trying to set some people, trying to set some people free so we can be free, right, all right, everybody, Drew, tell us, tell everybody what I know. You're involved with some other things, passion projects like where can be find you? Where can they support you? Yeah, I mean really just social media right now, I have we're kind of pivoting a little bit with with my own foundation to a more like peer support kind of platform. So just my social media will be releasing those things, but we want to grow it to a big audience at some point. But we're going to be holding intimate peer support groups, which you've done already. So Better Universe Foundation is what it's going to be title under and that's what we've been trying to get launch for the last couple of years, just hasn't been going as well. But social media, better universe giants, any mental health world I'm trying to be a part of. So find me, Connect, me down to connect. Start by going and listen this to episode one with Drew in season one and then yeah, then go do your research and support them. And yeah, Drew Man, thank you for coming on. We will do this again, no doubt, keep your comeback going. I'm so proud of you as you know, just as a friend to watch you step up. But we know like the work doesn't stop. Absolutely, I appreciate it so much. Love you guys and looking forward to stay connected and watching this podcast myself. All right, Love you both. Peace. Comeback Stories is a production of Inflection Network and iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.