Kelsey Plum's Comeback Story

00:00:10 Speaker 1: Welcome back everyone to another episode of Comeback Stories. Blessed to have you all here. We got an amazing guest with us here today. You didn't have to travel too far when in Las Vegas, Finest six Woman of the Year in the w NBA Olympic Gold Medalists, w NBA All Rookie Team, Turkish Cup winner twenty seventeen Nay Smith Wooden and AP Player of the Year in the NC DOUBLEA. We've got Kelsey Plumb with us. Kelsey, what was going on? What's going on? Thanks for having me. Oh no, it's awesome to have you here. We like to dive right in. We'd like to go all the way back to the childhood. So could you tell us what it was like growing up for you? Growing up was competitive? My dad is different. My dad is Everything was a competition. Like even as a baby sitting in the high chair, he would put food and you would grab it and he would pull it away and you'd like, he would be like, plumber, you gotta take it. You gotta take it if you want it. And you know, I laugh now because it's such a symbol for life. But you know, as a kid would go to restaurants and my dad would pay the bill, get in the car and drive off, and if you didn't catch the car like you were gonna get left, you had to walk home. Wow. Oh yeah, it was just I mean it was always a great time, having a ton of fun, but everything was a competition. Did that ever add some like pressure onto you? Did you ever feel like it was a lot to live up to? Do you feel like it maybe like robbed you, like a little bit of a kid experience, Like what was that? Like? Yeah, I think there are definitely times where you don't realize it's not normal until you go spend the night at someone else's house and you're like, wow, you don't have to box out to eat dinner, or like I don't have to you know, make sure you're not gonna steal my food or even after games, just conversations that I'd have with my parents and then hearing maybe conversations that my friends were having. But I wouldn't change anything. I wouldn't change anything. I think, you know, I had an amazing childhood, like I have. There's four of us. I'm the third of four, and you know all of us played college Division one on school scholarship, you know, both my parents went in college. My sister and I both played professionally, So I mean the competitiveness. I guess you could say it worked, no doubt worked for your dad if you didn't have to pay for anybody's college. Yeah, they had to pay college for themselves. Oh man, So would you say that your dad was your first real teacher? We'd like to go back and say, who is somebody that really started to form our character or formed the way that we faced adversity early on in life, Like, would you say that was your dad? I actually think that would probably be my two older sisters. You know, I was so fortunate to have their age gap. My oldest sisters four years older than me, and then my second sisters two years old than me, and you know, growing up, I got to watch them manage life and see the mistakes that they made, and they were very adamant about Kelsey, you should do this, you shouldn't do this. Watch look what I did learn from it. And I was so appreciative because even when I got to college, I felt like I had already had a roadmap of what to do, what not to do, you know, And so I just I'm super blessed I feel like they took a lot of hits on the chin for me and so I didn't have to That's big. It's like I know a lot of people in this day and age they want to say like they're self made and like they got it on their own out the mud, and it's like, I feel like that's impossible, But it really helps when you have somebody that's already been there and can pave the road for you. And so with that, I want to say, what is there a moment of adversity, like very early on in your life, like in your childhood that was a struggle for you or something that made you feel kind of uneasy with life? Like for me, it was like people said I wasn't black enough, and so that used to just like I'd be like, well, what like what do you want me to do? And I just went into like people pleasing mode to the thousandth power. And it's just like that experience and having that in my face and hearing that every single day was rough for me and it changed the way that I approached life. Would you say that anything happened to you when you were younger around that age? Yeah? I think when I so I was young. I think I was probably ten or eleven, and I was trying out for a basketball team that was like under fourteen or fifteen, like significant age gap, and I was good enough to be on the team, but I remember the coaches brought me in too, like a meeting for the club, and they wanted to talk to me because they're like, hey, this is a big age gap. We want to just make sure mentally and emotionally, like you're gonna be able to be a good teammate and handle because you know, there's when you grow up, like when you're ten, you're completely different than when you're fourteen, you know what I mean. And so I remember they bringing me in and one of the coaches was like, well, what do you want to do, Like what's your aspiration? And I was like, I'm gonna go play for Pat's Summit and then I'm gonna play in the league, like that's what I'm gonna do. And I remember she started laughing, like the coach started laughing at me, and I was like, I literally was like, what's so fun? And She's like, do you know how many kids want to do that? And I'm like sure, millions, okay, And she was just like, yeah, basically like look at you. You know, like at the time, I was probably like five to four, and I mean I'm white and not like this freak athlete, and I was just so pissed off. I'm like, are you kidding me? Like you're laughing at me? And I remember I went home and told my parents and they were just like, prove her wrong. And I didn't play for pat Summit, but I did make it to the league. And I actually haven't seen her since. I've always wanted to go back and find her and just be like, hey, how did that? How did that feel to tell a kid that they weren't gonna do what they wanted to do. That definitely was like a big moment in my life because that right there, I made the decision. I was like, oh, nah, she's wrong, she's wrong. Well yeah, I mean, judging off the introduction alone, you definitely proved her wrong. I mean I didn't even say McDonald's all American all time leading scorer in the NC DOUBLEA Like what take us through like your early basketball journey, going through high school in the college and you just being like, I mean, just if the stats say it the best woman college woman's basketball player ever, Like take us through what that was like, like the pros and the cons of just the load that it was. So I think for me, um, if you were to ask me going into college what it was gonna be, like, I had no idea it was going to be like that. Um. I remember coming into college and as a freshman, I led the country in minutes played. As a freshman, they name me a captain like the first when I showed up, and it was like social suicide. Like just I mean, imagine a rookie being named a captain on your team like you would every single player. You're going at his head. Yeah, yeah, for sure. And I just remember thinking like God, why why, Like I didn't ask for this, this was it and there the coach's idea was you're strong enough to handle it, and we're going to change the culture and it's gonna be with you. And it was really hard. It was really hard. Um. I think for me my college career, it's built a lot of character. But don't get me wrong, Like there were moments I didn't think, like I was depressed, suicidal, heavy antide presence at antide presents, sleeping medications like to get through and it ultimately became like my decline and then obviously I'm I'm back. But yeah, it was brutal to put that much pressure on a kid and then to perform. And then of course, you know, people see like the scoring and that's like the new expectation, you know. And so I just remember, like I was on campus, I had a camera crew following me around, coming into class with me, and you know, parents would bring their kids from all over to watch me play, and they would get so sad. They're like, man, she only scored twenty today, Like dang it, we missed it. We missed it. And I'm I'm thinking on my mind, I'm dang I played good, Like I got everybody the ball, we won twenty. Nope, not here to see you be a team point. No, No, they're trying to see me. They're trying to see me get it up, you know. And I just remember there was a countdown in the Seattle Times of how many points I needed to have to continue to break the record, and like, I'm not paying attention to these things, but you got everybody else and the world paying attention to it. And I'd have professors say, hey, one hundred and fifty more you got it, and I'm like, does anyone see me? You know what I mean, like does anyone care? But ultimately, the whole experience has definitely forged who I am and what I've been through and what I know I continue to go through because I mean, I mean, I wouldn't be here if I didn't go through that. It's a fascinating story. I feel like you guys have parallels in your journeys, even going back to childhood where you talked about you were having una brow right, dyslexic um, chubby and awkward, and Darren's mentioned the same thing, and then even leading up to draft day, where I don't think I know Darren had talked about this where he was not in a great place when on the biggest day of his life, and I think you had a similar story. Draft day probably was one of my old time lows. Um. I remember being drafted. Side note, anyone's watching, and if you're drafted, don't bring your boyfriend or girlfriend, or at least don't put him in the pictures because you're probably not go No, I don't need to go out track, But have you ever seen Russell Wilson's draft day with his wife. Yes, no, no, no, don't do it. Scene when Ceedee Lamb's girlfriend looked at his phone and he snatched the phone from plenty of them. No, no, it's okay. So anyways, my family was there, you know, all my friends were there, and I remember I got drafted, and um, you know, that's a moment that you work for your whole life. You you you are just waiting for it, and it happened. I just remember being so empty, just so empty and so numb. We finished the night. We all get in the taxis where it's in New York City, and I remember telling everyone, I'm like, hey, guys, I forgot my wallet or ID at the hotel. I'm gonna go to hotel. Don't worry about me. Go to the club. I'll meet everyone there. You know, we'll pop champagne. Cool. And I just remember going back to the hotel room and just go to bed by myself. Like I had my idea the whole time, but I just was so broken and it was just that for the next month. It was probably like the worst month of my life. What was missing in your life? I feel like you are chasing something for so long, and I feel like the satisfaction I thought I was gonna get for whatever, scoring those points, breaking those records, winning those awards, getting drafted number one was going to fix my emptiness or the lack of identity that I had for myself. You know, I literally had no idea who I was if basketball wasn't happening. And when it did all happen, it was like even more of a reassurance excuse me that I'm just I feel like nothing. I feel so worthless, I feel so empty. And I did everything I was supposed to do and I'm supposed to be happy right now and I'm not, and it was just it was just terrible. Yeah, it's like it's like that's it, Like that's all it is. I remember that vividly within my first two years in the league. It's like I've checked off you did the boxes that you have in a little like a checklist almost for your life, and it's like I checked off every box. I'm like I'm miserable pretty much. Like it's not just like man like I'm almost there, like no, this sucks, Like it's it's like when you attach your identity to your performance, it's like self robbery almost because you're basically saying, this is how I earn love or this is how I am worthy of love through how I perform what my stat line looks like, how many yards? And you know what I'm saying, like, and that's no way for human being to live. But that's what the world teaches us. So it's like, as we go on through our journey, it's about un learning everything that we've been taught. Almost like I'm I'm like everything I've been shown, like as a man, like what I'm supposed to do. I've kind of like tossing the trash can, trying to build a new foundation. So it's like all those things, it'll it'll never be enough ever. So interesting how so many people have the story, all three of us sitting here where I didn't make it to the level. YouTube was one talk about college baseball, but when you know, fifteen games into my senior year, I had a massive traumatic knee injury, a surgery that ended my career and my whole identity. I'm gonna achieve. If you've ever taken the Eneagram test, it will break down your personality traits. It's really fascinating. But my main one is a three I'm an achiever and a lot of that comes from seeking validation. I got all my attention, all my approval through the performance of my sports, and when one day, when that was taken away from me, I had nothing, and that literally almost killed me because it started a long run of an addiction to pain pills. And I did a lot of other drugs, but that is almost what took me out is that same exact thing. So I love hearing your story and Darren's story, and I know there's people listening to this that can relate to this, whether you're an athlete or your identity was wrapped in something else, that you better know who you are beyond the sport and the other thing I would say when I'm coaching athletes or clients when we talk about goal setting, like when you're set a goal, like the last step of setting a goal is you got to detach from the outcome because you don't actually don't have control over the outcome of it. But if you're so wrapped up in the attached to the outcome of it, and you get it, and then what So the key to goal setting is just to be able to release release attachments to the outcome and trust that it's going to unfold how it has to. But figuring out who you are beyond the sport. Like you said, all of your self esteem was determined by the performance of how you were doing on the court. The journey is the destination. Yeah, yeah, powerful. What would you say it was your like lowest of what was your low what was your rock bottom? I got drafted to San Antonio and we lived at this apartment and it was attached to a parking structure, and it was probably like seven or eight floors high, and I lived on the seventh or eight floor, And so when I drove on the parking structure, I would just drive up to the top in park and I remember I would just sit out at night on top of the structure and just dangle my legs over and just cry. And then I would just call random people in my phone. And I remember one night I called Mark hell Folts. Me and him were really close in college, and I thought it was the night. I thought it was it. And I just remember like thinking to myself, it's funny now. What's not funny now? But I can laugh at it now, Like I'm like, man, if I jump and my mom obviously will know she'll kill me again, like and in my mind, I just kept thinking, like, there's gotta be more to this. There's gotta be something else, Like I I can't let this be it. This is not what takes me out, like I've I was like, I worked too hard to get to this spot and let this parking structure be the reason that I go, and I it took me. I still don't know necessarily how I kind of got back in. I mean I just would pray. I would just sit up there and I would just pray, like and cry, and then I go to practice the next day. And and the worst part about it, I think for me is that I'm such a private person that I didn't tell anybody, Like nobody nobody knew I was going through this. People just thought I wasn't that good at basketball anymore. You know, there's oh, she's just the translation to college and the pro it's just not working for And I really I just was. I was just hanging on by a thread. So that was probably Lewis. People don't think that your performance is attached to like your what's going on the inside. My career was a shit storm in the beginning because there was a ship storm going on inside of me that I wasn't willing to sit with reflect on and try to find a solution to fix, and incidents like my football career got better when I did the work on the inside, and football just kind of started to happen because I take this human body and put it in pads and a raider's helmet and go out on the field. It's I'm not just a cyborg out there just running around just playing the sport. Like that's maybe how some people view me. But I have to take the person onto the field. And if the person is not cared for, if the person is not loved first and foremost, if the performance is ahead of the person, then it's not it's gonna be a it's a combustible formula. I feel like. So yeah, it's like I see that tune. It's like people are like, oh man, you just they just ain't got it anymore. It's like no, Like it's there's something in me that needs to change before we get back to playing this game where we put a ball with air through a net. Like you know what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah, I always we always talk about the most important relationship you'll ever have as the one you have with yourself. And the most important words you'll ever hear are the ones you say to yourself. So I think a lot of this comes in your belief system, right, And that's even before your thoughts. They say your thoughts control your life, but I believe that it's actually your beliefs that create your thoughts. So until you shift your belief system, we're going to end up right back in that same place, no matter what we acquire, no matter how many gold medals or championships that we get, Like, we have to get right on the inside, and in doing so, everything else will get right on the outside. What do you think you've got like at least two comebacks, but for comeback part one, for this part with the mental health stuff, what was the story that you had to stop telling yourself so that you could create a new comeback story. I realized that I lived in the victim mentality. I realized that it was the blame game. It was like, well, coach doesn't mess with me, and this girl doesn't want to pass me the ball, and you know my knee is partially torn, and you know I'm I'm going on like this family stuff or like there was always something that was wrong, and I just finally I think I got to the point where I realized, no one's gonna help me. This is like I gotta figure this out. Like I can't keep blaming stuff, or I'm I'll be out the league, you know, I'll be done. And I think that transition of thought and just really saying like I'm gonna take responsibility for what's going on in my life and get better and just be a dog. So that's kind of what no doubt in that I hear. There's a shift from it's not about what happens to me, It's about my response to what happens to me. Because there's a lot of things that people can turn on you, or you know, things cannot go your way, like a bad game can happen, Like all these things can happen to us, and it's like there's no way we can control everything, try to hold the world and like just be stretched all over the place, like that's literally impossible. So it's about my response to that. I don't have to let it dictate my emotions or my thoughts or how I treat people or how I talk to people. You know, it's like I have power in that sense, where before it's like in the blame game, it's like there is no power. Everything happens to me. It's not about what I do. And when I start taking ownership for what I do, it was like, that's when the world starts to change. That's when my life starts to change. I got the chills just saying that, because I talk about that all the time in my own sobriety and recovery. Everything changed when I stopped blaming, stopped blaming the doctor who screwed me, over my parents who were all over me, and just took ownership, took personal responsibility to participate in my own rescue, like no one's gonna come save me. My family was trying. They were. Probably my mom especially was enabling me. She's blinded by love and she thought she was helping, but probably was digging my bottom a little deeper because she just she only knows how to love, but was often getting in the way. But I think that's it, just ownership and and not taking things personally right. That's the end. I always talk about the four agreements. Yeah, and that's what that is. Being playing the victim is when we're taking things personally, and that self pity is buries a lot of people, whether they actually die or live an unfulfilled life. Like that's the story of victimization that keeps us in a really really small, self centered place. Not for real, but I mean, it's like that self centeredness is in a way, it's kind of taught to us. I was just saying this on a zoom yesterday. It was like, we're taught to come to this world and take success or take wealth or you know, create this platform for us. And it's like, you know, what are we doing for other people? And it's like we have to learn how to do that. We have to. It takes reps to do that, as it takes reps when you pull up mid range, it takes reps for running routes, it takes reps for hitting the baseball, It takes reps for all these things. And we're not necessarily taught to come into the world and be of service to people from the gate and then see what comes to us after that. And so that self centered perspective keeps us in this world where it's like anything that happens around me, it's about me, Like it has to do with me, like why are you doing this to me? Like how did this? You know? What did I do to deserve this? And it's like it's not even that, it's just life. But if we approach it with the love that we give not to something that I should be getting something in return, but we don't, we're not taught bad. We've got lucky me and you. From a the addiction standpoint where I think about this all the time, there's a lot of people that didn't go through an addiction which I own that was self inflicted. Um, there's mental health, there's people that are just kind of walking sleepwalking through life. But to be able to truly like own our life is it's everything. It's just taking personal responsibility. I think that's that's what sets us free, where we're not giving our power away to other people, places and things. But yeah, and in the addiction, they teach us selfishness and self centeredness is the core of our disease. So what's what's the antidote? Service? And services like the greatest life hack ever in service When you're in self pity, just go help somebody. Then you're not going to be thinking about your own shit. I want to get back to your journey though. Um so I'm picturing you like sitting on top of the parking deck, and I'm like, okay. Like when people think of a comeback story, like you bounce back from that, a lot of people may think like everything is great, like nothing bad is gonna happen again, like I've already overcome everything. But no, it's like, you know, there's another major event in your life, like you tearing your achilles, Like that's another moment of adversity. Were never we never know like what the number of times we're gonna have to bounce back, But here's another one for you. And it's like, do you think that experience of you bouncing back from those suicidal thoughts and your mental health at that time when you were a rookie compared to the Achilles, like you think you were prepared more so in a way for a fight that came unexpectedly. That's a great question. The Achilles was the best thing to ever happened to me, the best thing to ever happened to me, because I'm a goer, like I want I want to move, I want to go, I don't get tired. I can go all day and it literally forced me to sit down. Like I don't know if you guys know Achilles protocol, but the first fourteen days you can't sweat. You're in a cast with the stitches, and you can't sweat so the stitches don't get inflamed. Like, you can't sweat, so you can't move, like you're literally better, exactly exactly. And my dad's cheap, like he doesn't pay for AC So I'm in the bed. I'm in the bed on the first floor in Cali because I got surgery in La I couldn't go to Vegas and I live like I have to walk upstairs in my in my house. So I'm sitting in the living room on like an air mattress for fourteen days with my leg up and just hoping to God that I don't get infected because it's hot. It's super hot, and I'm I mean, I've never done that in my life. You didn't move, I mean I like wheeled around to go to the bathroom, you know what I mean, or like maybe sat outside a little bit, try to read a book. And I was like, oh, basketball, better work out because this isn't great. And I'm like this is terrible, and I just finally had to come to grips with what was happening, and I had to like force myself to find something outside of basketball because I'm like, this is this is it? And then and then from there, um, I mean you know the story, Like I came back and everything was everything was Gucci, But the achilles reset my mindset for reality and my perspective on gratitude, my ability to be present. I think the awareness wasn't where it needed to be. I got to rebuild myself mentally, spiritually, physically, and today, like I still believe it was a it was a gift from God, Like it was a gift from God that I tore my achilles. And I don't think you would have been able to come back from that one the way you did if you weren't in that first comeback, because I think you talked about it where you weren't in self pity, right, and so that kind of set you up for this next one and gave you the strength and the right perspective to see that this is actually happening for me and not to me, which is like the big shift. It's a perspective shift that's beautiful. There's a book that people like me and Donnie Reid when we go to meetings and in it it says, you know, we will know a new freedom and a new happiness. We will not regret the past nor wish to shut the door on it. And it's like people would be like, there's no way somebody that would be sitting with their foot up on their air mattress would be able to say at that time, this is going to be the best thing that's ever happened to me. Ain't nobody saying that. But it's like when you go through it and you look back, it's like the things that you never expected, those things, those rough adversity times that you thought like you wish you could avoid as a human being, like you want to avoid that discomfort. But when that discomfort happens, your perspective changes, your life change, and you look back and you're grateful for But as human beings, were not wired to see it that way. But it's a beautiful. It's beautiful to sit here and see and hear somebody that has all these accolades and has performed all this, because that's who people look to. But to hear you use your voice in this way and to share these things and put these things out there. This is what people need to hear. That's why we're in this room. Like, there's no other reason for us to be here in this room than to change the conversations that people have. So your real one, Yeah, you are. And I would say I would like to ask you what is your how do you sustain this today? Like what's your morning routine, what's your pregame routine? What do you do to keep your mind right and and your heart protected? Also, Wow, that's a that's a great question. I'm not gonna lie. I don't know about you guys, but there are moments where I have to, like, wait a second, like, don't go back, you know, don't go back, like where are you every day? You know? Um? Meditation has been huge for me. I get up, I like to be outside. I like to hear the birds chirp. I meditate for ten fifteen minutes. I write down ten things I'm grateful for, and I try some days as harder than others, but I try to make it more diverse, you know what I mean. Can't just be grateful for the same thing every day? And then I also write down I work with a coach, and I write down interferences, things that get in the way of me being present for the day, or potential interferences, and so for example, I mean a lot of times it is performance base, but there's things in life, you know, so I think you know, for example, say we're playing a game of playing against Dallas or something. So I know I'm gonna be guarding this girl, and I know that she's gonna try to give me a foul trouble. So what's a possible interference I'm in foul trouble on the bench? How am I gonna How am I gonna prepare my mind for that? Or possible interference I don't know, turn the ball over a couple of times to start the game, or possible interference. I get an argument with my mom in the morning, How is that going to change the direction of my day? Just little things like that. And that's been really big for me, being present and being in the moment, and it's changed the quality of my days. And that's like a lifelong thing that I will never I will never give that up. So beautiful interferences or distractions kind of the same thing. And I always say it's our reaction to our distractions. So when you get ahead of it and be proactive and shine the light of awareness on what could possibly and it's not like you're manifesting it. You're intentionally calling in what could get in the way so that you can have a plan if it does. Beautiful preparation. My sponsor had been dropping gems on me and he says, like in line with this, he says, you choose your own level of distraction, and I'm just like it's just been marinating in my mind. I'm just like wow, Like I really it's kind of like in the beginning, like you said, like a victim mentality, like it's always somebody else to blame game, But it's like no, you choose. Like the impact that those kind of things get to have on you as a person, it's like that's powerful because you don't know when these things pop up, but if you deal with them in the right way, things are going to continue to go in your favor. We need these moments where things aren't going our way or like you said, we got to slow down or we have to wait, Like we need those things that people even though we don't want them well in your practices are so beautiful. I mean I always say, what we practice grow stronger, and so a lot of us get really good at being distracted. How could we not in a world that's addicted and afflicted to distraction. I mean, the phone alone that's still today is my biggest distraction. And living out by the ocean now and I will connect with nature and get out there and then come back and grab my phone. And I feel the disconnect like I can feel it in my body now, so I'm a lot more aware of it. It's still happening, but it's the visceral feeling of it that allows me to Actually it's the awareness which allows me to stop and redirect my folks us on to what matters and not going down one of those rabbit holes with the phone. The phone is like, oh my crack gosh, oh I hate the phone. I wouldn't have social media. I wouldn't have any of it. But I'm trying to put my future kids through college. You know what I'm saying, right, I'm gonna tell the truth on y'all. I was late today. I forgot my phone at home, but it's really for that like I have, Like I don't even get alerts through my phone. I don't know how these Atlanta telemarketers can you getting my number? They need to stop, but they that's the only thing that comes through, and I just pressed end on it. But I've set myself up in a way to where it's like because we have that is and it's just like you like reach for it. It's like, even if it's not buzzing like you were in reach, like oh, something's happening, it's like that phone is dangerous. You're more disciplined than than most with that phone. I mean, I know, from a social media standpoint, I'm sure if you really made a little bit of an effort, you probably could have a lot more followers. And I know that doesn't doesn't really matter to you. I, um, yeah, I start trying to run that up. I'm playing the game that I can never win. You know, just asn't align with your values, right. I will add to the daily practice don't touch my phone for the first hour of the day and don't touch it for the last. It's hard at the end of the night because a lot of time you're trying to catch up one like texts or or whatever, DMS, no kidding, and so and so that's hard. I try. I try to make sure i'm at least fifteen ten to fifteen minutes at the end of the day. But the first hour in the morning, like you said, it's like you touch it and you feel like you've just been corrupted. I don't know what it is, but I love your practices. I mean that my life changed when I stopped grabbing my phone. I had a coach take me through this visualization because what I what I used to do was wake up and the second I woke up, check text, check social media, check email, right away into reaction and ultimately reacting to other people and distraction. And I had this teacher or my coach take me through this visualization and she said, okay, I'm going to take you through. You're in a movie theater. I want you to visualize. There's three screens. The first screen is you watching yourself grab your phone and go to social media when you wake up. The second, the second screen is you choosing to meditate and do your daily reflections. And the third screens a blank screen. It's just white. And she's like, I'm gonna make this swishing sound. Every time I make the swishing sound, just have the screen change, so I close my eyes and she starts going. I'm like, okay, this is weird for like two minutes and she's like, all right, check with you in a few days and let me know how that goes. For the next day, I woke up in the morning and there was space. There was like awareness to choose, and I chose to meditate four days in a row, so solid, fifth day, have the space, choose my phone total shit show that day felt it and then from that day on and it varies, but I will do intentional things before I grab that phone every single day, and it's changed my life forever. It's wild. Amen, what would you say to the person that's driving up to the seventh loorder parking deck dangling their feet over the edge. Somebody that may have their foot in the cast on the air mattress right now, somebody that's, you know, in a victim mindset. Would you have anything to say to them? Because they're in their spot. They may know like what's holding them back or what they have to do, but what would you say to get them started? There's so much more, There's so much more to life. It's it's so hard to see it when you're in it. I heard I heard that quote. It was like, it's hard to see the picture when you're in it, but there's so much more to life. Don't don't let this life take you. I don't I don't even know if I'm even saying this right, But just keep putting one foot forward front of the other, like, keep like, just keep going. And I do believe that whether you believe in God, whether you believe in energy, whatever, I do believe that if your intentions are pure and you continue to push yourself and grow as a human, things will go your way. So I just I just pray that people like does don't give up, don't don't let it take you. I don't even know if that's no answers the question that's real. I was actually thinking about earlier today because it's like I was thinking, I was like, yes, Achilles here, I'm like, oh man, she probably had to learn how to walk again. I literally have written here one foot in front of the other. That was like a few hours ago. And it's like somebody like me, I'm a one day at a time guy. That's like my mantra. That's how I move, and it's I can't get too far ahead into the future. I can't, you know, and I can't stay too stuck in what's going on before. I gotta keep moving. I gotta keep praying, I gotta keep talking to people. I gotta keep writing in my journal, I gotta keep going to therapy and talking about these things. Like, because I can't think my way into a better life, I have to act my way into that life in the thinking will change in the process. So putting that one foot in front of the other, it's like, it's so cliche, but it's like, no, bro, like that. Simplicity is what it is, what it takes to create and maintain that life that you've always wanted. It doesn't take a whole lot. It's really simple. Oh wait, I want to add them too. In my darkest moments still, I write out everything how I'm feeling, and I don't hold back. I put the F bombs in there, I everything. I don't spell anything right. I write at all in there, pages and pages, and I read it and then I rip it up and I don't know what it is. My My performance coach therapists talk taught me that, and he says something about the brain that when we see our words down and we basically give us back the power and we rip it up, like our brain is able to kind of transition into the next phase. And that's that's helped me tremendously. So if you are in one of those days, write it out, cried out, read it, rip it up. That's powerful, Like somebody need to hear, like, stop holding stop holding it back, Like what that you holding that back is holding back your healing. It is holding back your growth in that path, that next step to go on to where you want to be. Right, Yeah, write it out, share it because if you don't, it's going to turn on you and eat you up from the inside out. And that's the power of it. And even at your bottom, I think my bottom was looked different than your bottom. But also you had mentioned that no one knew, so there was this quiet crisis going on inside of you. And they say, we're only as sick as our secrets. So we're keeping it all in right, And I think we think that we're the only I know. I thought I was the only one going through this, poor me, right, I'm not. I didn't want it. There was a lot of shame also and guilt in the life that I had been living and so I didn't want to talk about it. So I went into like, sure, isolation and that it was tough when you're when you're stuck inside your own head and you don't have anybody to talk to. But I'm telling you you're not alone, and that's I know people say that all the time, but it is true. I thought I was alone, But there's a lot of people, a lot of people that have gone through the exact same thing I did, and they found a way out. So you're not alone. Do you have any like affirmations or mantras or um incantations or things that and I don't know if I don't want to get if you might want to keep them to yourself, or if you have anything that you use. You just said, we got to talk about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Incantations that's all another word for like an affirmation, statements that you're saying to yourself. If you look in the mirror and you might say things or I am statements, Um I do, I would say, um. Generally speaking, I've learned you got to be your biggest fan, not in an arrogant sense, but you got to self talk literally self talk. Um. Because like you said, we have to hear ourselves like show ourselves love, and the most important relationship is yourself. I was even working out today and I was talking to myself during my workout because I didn't think I was going to get through it, and I did, and I was like, good job, Like I'm proud of you, Like good job. And I know it sounds dumb, but I'm telling you it's actually super loving. And I don't even know that's pivotal because real, yeah, I could catch nine pass I could catch nine passes out of ten. My mind's gonna go straight to the one that I didn't if I don't talk to myself in that way and treat myself. You know, I'm saying talking to myself like a king. You know, absolutely it's acknowledging. And I don't think we were not good at acknowledging others or are definitely not good at acknowledging ourselves and celebrating those wins. But yeah, and I think when we say something out loud, it's ten times more powerful than if we just think it, And if we say something negative out loud, it's another seven times more powerful. So saying negative things, that's seventeen times more powerful. But it's the power of our words. And I think talking to ourselves and creating that positive self talking language is everything, I think, especially being a female being raised and my parents were wonderful. But in general, you can't be cocky and be a girl in play sports. That's not like a thing, you know what I mean. And people come across as cocky, but they're really confident. A lot of times they're just nah, I think I'm the best, and you know, I don't know if you guys saw that movie King Richard, Yeah, with Serena and Venus. But I just loved how he talked to his daughters. He said, you're the best in the world. You're the best in the world. And she heard it and she believed it, and she was like, Dad, I'm the best in the world. And I've learned that that's who you gotta talk to like, you gotta talk about it like that. And so as a female athlete, that confidence needs to be seen. You know, a lot of we don't have a ton of female leaders, and so, you know, growing up, I think I had two older sisters that were very confident and that and still a lot of confidence in me, and so when I talk, I make sure that I let you know. Young girls know, I'm like, now you got it, like that you're nice. How powerful of an analogy because how many parents or someone said something to us at a young age that was not true and negative and people are still believing that voice. I always ask, like if some people come up with stories and like whose voice is that? That's not your voice? Your voice wouldn't say that to yourself. Your voice, You're made from love. But somebody said something and then we believed it, and then that became our our own story. It's wild, like we passed down comfortable limits to our kids. Are two people when it's like when we got too comfortable to go after something and we didn't want to get uncomfortable to do it. We don't want other we want other people to do what we do. We don't want them to kind of branch out from us, like you can't do more than I did, Like I didn't see it was possible. So and you really can't blame them because they don't have that experience to see more. There's more to life, there's more to what I'm currently sitting in. So it's yeah, we gotta speak into young people. You're talking about, there's not a lot of woman leaders. We got one right here. I don't know what you're talking about. So we're gonna affirm you right here when we're on the show. That's just what we do. You know what I'm saying. We got one more question for you. Throughout your journey. I'm sure there are so many people that helped you along the way. If you could give a comeback story, shout out to one person or a few, who would that one person of those few people be? I have so many, Oh my goodness. I mean, first and foremost my mom. My mom is just a dog. My mom just I remember so many times in life she was just we'll figure it out. We got it, let's do it. You got it, We'll figure it out. My mom. My mom's a type of woman. We wanted hardwood floors in our house, and she cut him herself, put them in herself. That's what type, that's what type of manage my mom is. Um. So anyways, I would say first and foremost my mom and then just my family. My family just unbelievable support. Like you said, you don't people say you got it out the mud, but there's so many people that help you along your way. You know, AAU coaches. My high school coach is like an angel. I'll try to go back and visit her as much as I can. My college coaches, they were a big part of my life. And I just have so many friends I can't even pick like to name. I Just like you said, and still to this day, you know, like to be successful, you don't do it on your own. You have a support system. It's beautiful. I want to just acknowledge you for showing up and how you show up, your authenticity, your character. I love your perspective. I mean, you are speaking our language so much stuff that you said. I mean, we're we're in these same practices. And I know there's so many people out there that will benefit from your story and what you share today. So thank you for showing up big, thank you. Thanks for having me. Yeah, it's a pleasure. Appreciate you being here. I have one question, Oh um, does working with Darren like does you have to pay you extra annually or monthly just because he's there? You know what I'm saying. We gotta get it. We we we relations our relationships started, Our relationships started, Our relationship started as a coach clients and we we just we talked about a year ago and I'm like, dude, you're not paying me anymore. We're on a ride doing something else, and I was just messing, yeah, Donnie still be coaching me though. Yeah No, Donnie still be coaching me, Like he drops gyms on me. He's somebody that I lean on and man through through anything. Really, So Donnie, man, why are you here? Man? I'm giving your hours. Bro, I'm not. I'm not gonna wait, So I'm giving it to all y'all. That's just the love and I got in my heart. So I appreciate, appreciate you guys. For the resties, be out all right,