Michael Phelps' Comeback Story

00:00:02 Speaker 1: All right, welcome back, everybody. We're here for another episode of Comeback Stories, and this one, my friends, is a special one because today our guests is Michael Phelps. Widely regarded as the greatest athlete of all time, Michael is the most decorated Olympian in history. He's captured twenty eight Olympic medals, including our record setting twenty three gold medals. He set thirty nine world records over the course of his career. Michael has also published two autobiographies and a children's book. But why he's really here with us today is because of how he's using his platform to help save lives through the Michael Phelps Foundation, and his commitment to raising awareness for water safety and mental health, which Darren and I believe is a better than anything he's ever done in the pool. So Michael's on a mission of changing the perception and stigma around mental health and we're honored to have him on our show today. Welcome brother, Thanks man, appreciate it. Thank you. Hey. We get right into our story here or your story here? Can you tell us a little bit about it was like growing up for you, I mean for me growing up I was I guess a normal athletic kid. I go from the baseball field to the soccer field, to the lacrosse field to the swimming pool. Um, just trying to get as much energy as I could out of my system. Growing up with ADHD. Obviously I could never sit still. You'll notice today I'm always moving around. I'm fidgeting with something. So that was a way I think for my mom to kind of relax me once I got home, right, settled me down a little bit, and and I guess at the age of eleven, I started swimming, stopped all the other sports and just focused on that. But like as a kid, I mean, I think my childhood was a normal childhood just because I was doing everything I wanted to do. You know, everything that I did in my career was a dream of mine. So um, it started as you know, that little seven year old kid when when I started swimming, and turned out to be a pretty fun career, pretty enjoyable career. Can you talk about an early struggle or an early memory of pain that you have. I mean, when I think back to childhood, it's it's like I remember getting picked on as a kid for having big ears, for shaving my legs, for wearing a I don't want to say a speedo, but it's what everybody knows, it a brief swimsuit. So like for me, like I, I guess I didn't really have too many friends going up, Like I was kind of in my own world for me, Like I everything that I wanted to do was in the swimming pool, So I kind of stiff armed everybody else and it was like screw it, Like I have this amazing opportunity to do something really cool and really special, and and I never really thought about, um, you know, the pain that probably caused me as a kid, you know, looking back, Like I think my childhood was normal, but like I don't know what a normal childhood is, right, Like I was engulfed in swimming and staring at a black line for four hours of the day. So to me, that sounds like you didn't have a normal childhood, right, it's a direct op. But what were some of the good sides of that? And then what were some of the bad sides of that? Um? I mean, like I honestly I don't see a bad side to it because I'm to the point where I am now, right, Like I've been able to learn so much throughout my life and throughout my career, what I've done, whether it's in the pool or out of the pool, or in our family life now. So um, for me, like, I don't think there was any negative things. I think I learned probably at a different pace or in different ways that other people have or do. Um. And I think for the good thing, you know, looking back at it, for you know, back when I was in high school, the good thing was it about it was I had a routine. I was able to establish a routine early, and I was able to just keep everything in order right, like whether it's my schoolwork, whether it's going to practice, whether it's taken care of my recovery and all that stuff. I had all that time and energy to do that. So for me being able to establish that routine at such a young age, I think helped a longevity number one of my career. But also I think it played a big or it could have played a big role of what we all went through over the last eighteen months two years, you know, being locked down in our home and you know, really not being able to do absolutely anything, you know. So for me at that point, like it was so important for me to stay into a routine, working out, making sure I'm doing the self care that I need for me to be me right, Like if my glass is half empty, I can't give I can't fill my family's cups up, so you know, like I gotta take care of myself. So I think the routine aspect of it, I think that was really really good. Darren and I talk about it most every day, having a routine, and you just touched on it with with COVID and quarantine, And this is what I was teaching all of my clients was find a routine, fine structure, because all of a sudden, your routine is taken away. There is not structure, and people didn't know what to do with it. So it sounds like like having to find that focus, your narrowed focus so early worked for you. Was there ways that it also worked against you? Or I've heard you talk about how it had ramifications. Yeah, having to do that. I think it's back to the compartmentalizing, right Like back then, you know, I could compartmentalize absolutely anything and everything I wanted to because it was my career, right Like, there's nobody else that's swimming for me. I'm doing all of the work, so which means I have to take care of the recovery. I have to take care of the sleep, the food, massages, all of that stuff is on me. So like throughout my career, I had to be that way in order to get the results that I got because if I would have, if I would have done any other way, then I don't think I would have had the clear ability or the chance to be able to do that. So but I think now, back to what I was saying, like, I can't compartmentalize now. I don't like using the word can't. I don't hate it. It's a negative word, but I know that I can't do it. I cannot compartmentalize now because there are other people that will affect or that that will be affected because of that. Right, my family, my kids, everything else. It trickles down. It's not just me that I'm trying to figure out life for right of all these other people. And I love it, but I had to change how I'm doing it. I think COVID forced us into staying in that routine. But also, like, for a lack of a better word, like sitting your own ship right like you had to. We had no other way, nothing else to do. We were all we were all doing it right. So, like I look at COVID as almost as a blessing because the amount of growth that my wife and I went through, the learning opportunities, everything it was. It was incredible, incredible. I got chills you saying sit in your own ship, because that's what I said about the quarantine the entire time. I'm like, this is one long ass meditation And why why why do people run for meditation because they don't want to sit in their own ship? Yep? Because thoughts are pretty scary. Yeah, but the only way we get through it is to go through it. We have to vulnerability. Yeah, we have to walk through the fire. And there's so many distractions out there. We all have them. I mean the smartphones alone is a distraction. But I'm so glad that you brought that up. Who would you say your first real teacher was. I mean I would say my coach um, just because how we processed everything, you know, how, like how he presented everything like for me. So if I'm trying to swim in the Olympic Games, I get I get four years on one shot every four years to do that, right. So it's a four year process to get to that point, so physically, emotionally, mentally, we have to prepare that whole four years. Um. So I think he taught me the importance of goal setting at such a young age, short term, long term, and for me, I was I was as detailed as you could possibly imagine, like down to the hundredth um. So, if I want to go forty nine ninety eight, I got to find how I'm going to want how I'm gonna do that. But so that's I got to take it out in twenty four twenty four seconds, right, we'll call it that. So how many twenty four second fifties do I have to do in practice? So he taught me that at such an early age, and I think that trend that that that basically opened the door for me to really challenge my mind to believe that anything was possible. Right. Like, that's back to the word can't, right, Like, he took that out of my vocabulary at such a young age, because if you say you can't do something, turn the page, move on, Like, why are you wasting your time? You've made that choice up for yourself, move on, Like, So we completely removed it from our vocabulary because we wanted to have a chance, right, Like, that's all I'm doing. Like I wanted to have a chance to be the greatest. Right, I'm doing the work right, that's that and the other. But like, if you don't do every little small thing right, then you could miss it by that. So I want to have every opportunity to do. But I wanted the opportunity to do everything that I could do, but do things that nobody else thought about, dreamed about, or thought was possible. It didn't care, I don't care. Like, fine, let's go. I mean, that's that's just that's how I worked. I don't know. I mean I'm kind of a scattered brand, so I can go all over the place. Sorry, no, Yeah, I feel like, um, in order to create like a life that you really having an impact on people or in creating a legacy, I feel like, you know, there has to be some sort of adversity in the mix of all that you go through that strengthens you, that makes you stronger, and that just you know, it makes you battle tested. And I know that's what that's why we love having you here. Uh, there's not a lot of people in the world. I feel like that can relate to winning like twenty eight medals, but I feel like they can relate to maybe the depression or the things that were just kind of like swelling up on the inside of you along your journey. And so I want to ask you, you know, what were some of the greatest moments of adversity that you faced in your adult life and take us through what those situations look like A man, I guess my first depression spell was in two thousand and four, after my second Olympics. I think that's where I was. I guess I learned what post traumatic or I mean, excuse me, what post Olympic depression is, and I felt it, You know, that feeling of working towards something for four years and then you get to the end and you're like, what do I do? Where do I go? Right? Like, I gotta I gotta suit back up and go four more years to get this one opportunity. You're lost. So in two thousand and four I had my first depression spell. I'm sure I wrote roller Coasters up and Down to two thousand and eight. After two thousand and eight winning eight gold medals, again, post Olympic depression, I guess my set. My first DBI was in first DUI was in two thousand and four my second dB I was in two thousand and fourteen. For me, in twenty fourteen, that was the moment where I felt like I didn't want to be alive. Just I felt like, I mean, I was doing nothing right. I felt like everything that I did was completely wrong and I was hurting everybody around me. And I thought that was the easiest way out. Just forgot about it. And I think at that point was a learning opportunity for me because I sat in my room for three days, didn't talk to anybody, didn't eat, didn't drink, didn't do anything, just sat there. I wanted to be left alone. After those three days, I decided it was time to check myself into a treatment center. Forgot what was going on? Why am I? Why am I this way? How am I this way? Uncover all of these things? For me, that was probably some of the scariest, scariest forty five days of my life, checking into a place where I knew nobody. UD have a cell phone, it didn't have a computer, I had no access to the outside world. Um I basically after the first three days, it's just like, screw it. Let's go like I'm all in right, like not one foot on the boat, one ft on the dock anymore. Let's get something out of this. It's let's let's be vulnerable for the first time, right, Like, let's go to a scary place and try to change and try to grow. And for me, that's that's I think truly would change my life. Um. You know when I was sitting in those in my room after fourteen two fourteen, uh, my second DUI, I'm I'm lucky I only had three ambient left. So for me, like I naturally traveling the world, we were given ambient by doctors to sleep, right, we're traveling across the world. Whatever helps us get actimated. I'm I'm thankful I only had three. I don't know if I if I would have had more, what would have happened. So, UM, you know, for me, I think at that point, you know, obviously going into treatment and learning and uncovering more about myself and the struggles that I had had as a child and the things that I carried on from my childhood. UM, I uncovered a lot of things about my father that I never wanted to talk about. UM. But I think really just coming out of it, like I just felt like a different person. Um. I felt like I had a chance or I had tools to be able to get me through any situation. Um. I mean trying to think of where else I can go. I don't know. Well, I've heard your story about in treatment at the Meadows and how the first couple of days you didn't talk to anybody. I had my back against the what basically like if this is everybody else, my back is to them. I'm eating, I'm not talking to anybody. I'm completely shut down because like I just I didn't know when to let the guard down, let the walls down, right, like just be open um. And I think you know, it took one person and his name is Morgan. Morgan came up to me and and just put his arm like arm on my back and just started talking to me. And as soon as he did that, my shoulders dropped. I was calm, I was relaxed. I felt like I felt support, I guess um, and at that moment, I just I mean I just let everything down and I was just ready to go right, just that sense of ease. Um. Yeah, but yeah, I think the first few days are really hard. I mean, I remember I was in like I was what do you call I mean, we caught it like I don't even know forget what we caught it the nursery sweet or something. The first few days when you're like people were detoxing or making sure all the vitals and everything are right. I remember I was. I would do push ups and sit ups and squats until I couldn't move every single night, um because I couldn't work out too um. So for me, it was just like a way to get everything out. But like there were so many emotions, raw emotions that were going through me for those forty five days. It was the craziest thing I've ever experienced. I only brought that up because I resonate so much with that. I remember going to my first AA meeting and a guy coming up to me after the meeting and saying, we need you here, Mike, like me, Yeah, you don't even know, you don't even know the stuff that I've done, but it right then, it bankrupt the story of I'm alone right there. That was it. So I just wanted, yeah, it's so true, Like I mean, because I feel like you know when you're for me, Like when I spin, and I spin, like if I go into depression or this or that, like so he said. I looked over, he said, laugh, lost with train of thought. Um, at times, like I feel like I'm alone, you know what I mean, Like when you're going through those depression spells, you feel like you're the only one on earth that ever feels that. But I think that's that's the coolest thing that I've really found about mental health. Um, people sharing their stories, right, And it's the same thing, right, Like the more people share stories, the more we let our guard down, and the more we can help and change. UM. So yeah, I think that for me, I love that. It's funny, like we say we really want freedom, but it's like we still find a way to not want to have those conversations. I still do to this day, Like I know that it's what's gonna really have me feeling free and feeling alive and just feeling like, you know, this is where I should be doing. But I still want to run from it in a sense, because you know, my mind doesn't want to go through that that pain or that just weird feeling of letting that out again. Sometimes I feel like I've done it enough sometimes I feel like, you know, like why do I gotta keep going this route? But it's the route of you know, like consistently freeing myself, Like there's one day I can feel great and feel this where it's like if I'm not plugging into that every single day's And that's what rehap did to me, you know. I kind of came in the same way you did, you know, kind of fighting everything. My ego, my pride were just on front line and I had to just let that go and be able to receive and just realizing the power of honesty and allowing people into my life allowed me to go forward and realized it's like I don't have to clean to my accomplishments as much going forward. You know, they're not going to save me. They haven't saved me now. No, I've been in the NFL. I've been where everybody says they dream of wanting to go and it does nothing for me. So it's like that rehab experience of just hey, we put the world on hold and it does wonders. Yes, Yes, it's powerful stuff. I mean I think just this conversation alone, right, I mean, I'm our hope is creating comeback stories, which, by the way, I guess we should set the context. We're sitting. This is Darren and I first live yeah podcast we've ever done. We've been doing them all virtual. We're sitting at the wind at the beautiful Blue Wire Studios. Shout out to David Meltzer for allowing us to make this happen. And we've got our podcast producer Paul and Michael's wife Nicholes, we got we got an audience. So this is all new to Darren and I. But Darren had a big victory last night, first Game of the Sea. Really going to go there some rave fan man. But something that me and Donnie always talk about is, um, you know, the only story that matters is the story that we tell ourselves. And so you know, I'm sure you had a narrative that was going on in your head constantly up until that point, But what was the new narrative that you'd start to develop in your mind after you went to rehab and did that work on yourself? I mean, I think it's it's it's still the same thing, right, Like it's it's similar to the same thing because like for me, like I I know that I'm not able to compartmentalize like I used to, right But it's it's for me. Your mind is so powerful, right Like, that's something that we all have to understand and we need to understand more of it. Our mind is one of the most powerful things we can use. So, um, I think believing in yourself is it's the easiest thing, but it's also the hardest thing, right like. But but I think that's that's one thing for me, Like I I know, if I put my mind to something, there's there's not a soul that's gonna stop me from doing it. Like, I just don't care. Um, you know, being able to do something things that that we've done in our career, right Like, people always think, oh my gosh, it's incredible, like how do they do that? But no, as you put your mind to something, right you, it's it's little, little small things that add up to making a big difference. So yeah, I mean I think for me, m one foot in front of the other. I mean kind of giving myself a break from time to time too, you know. I think that's something that that I still have a hard time with, right Like, I want to be perfect all the time, and I know naturally that's not always possible. So um, as a human being, we make mistakes in our life and we do it every day. So UM, I think that's one thing again during the quarantine that I was able to learn I think more of or I guess be aware of. Um, maybe not learn, just be aware of. And I think that's that's something that that is a start, right Like for me, Like I you know, I picked up swimming and everything I did in the sport like that, everything I did in my life was around swimming. So I can't expect to understand and know everything that I'm doing on dry land all the time, right, Like it's going to be an experience, it's a grow it's a growing experience for me, a learning experience for me. So but I mean naturally, I just always think that I can do anything I put going into and I just don't care because it's you know, it's it's you have to obviously you have to do work in order to get to a goal, right, But that's kind of how we all do what we do. But for me, I'm I still have goals that I want to accomplish and things that I want to do, but it's just different than staring at a black line and summing up and down the pool. Right. Well, you mentioned awareness, which Darren and I talk about this a lot also in our coaching. Is that awareness is the first step in creating any kind of change. It's like step one in the twelve Steps. It's admitting, right, you have a problem. You don't know if you don't know. So having these practices that cultivate more awareness in our lives, like meditation or journaling. I'm just curious, like, what are some of your practices or what does your morning routine look like today? Journaling? Journaling? Journaling? I well, I mean for me, like my normal routine is I work out every day. I'm I go to the grocery store from time to time. I mean, we have three growing boys. They're always eating through the house. I'm in charge of dinner. But like for me, my biggest thing that I like to do is journaling because I want to get everything out, whether it's good, bad, or ugly. I don't care. It's on paper. I can go back to that day. Like, I mean, I have a whoop too, Like I'm keep track of all of my stuff. So, did I not get enough sleep? Did I not drink enough water? Is my blood oxygen blood oxygen off like all of these different stats. Like I'm a nut when it comes to it. So, um, journaling I think helps me go back to be able to make steps forward, right, Like I can learn from everything that I've done in my past, but I can't do that unless I'm journaling all of everything that's happening, even the bad stuff. Like some of the bad stuff it's scary. I mean, like some of the things that I write down, it's not pretty. But I'm getting it out and I think that's that's the it's the most important part. That's the power of the practice. It's it's getting out what's inside of you, because if you don't get it out, it's you, Yeah, and it eats you up from the inside out. But then there's journaling positive things like gratitude and focusing on the things we're grateful for every day. Which if we're focusing on that, guess what happens? Yea more good comes into our life because where our attention goes, energy flows. I started doing, Um, I don't do it anymore. I need to get back to it. It's the ten minute journal or the five minute journal. I'm in a journal like it's just something that's so easy and something it's so simple, but it's so important, right you just sit down and reflect on the day. I think it's there's there's so much power to that. Um you know, I think we live in a super crazy fast world. So being able just to take that time to slow down, I think is important for everybody. But it's something that that I know we try and do as a couple. Just take our time to ourself. That's one thing I think we've done pretty well through quarantine. I think it's important, as you said that, because I feel like a lot of people that maybe listen to this right now feel like they're most productive or like they're celebrated when they're just like grind, grind, grind, grind grind. It's like any sort of rest or reflection or time that's not on task is seen as bad or like seen as you're falling behind instead of you know, that could be that replenishing and that refreshing that you may need to propel you to go forward. Because if you don't stop in reflect and look back and acknowledge yourself for what you have done well and what you may need to change, and just look at it for all, for what it is. You know, you'll just go floating through life. I know that feeling all too well, and I never want to go back to that again. You want to have a purpose, right, Yeah, you know, you know you want to go through life, and yeah, I mean I always want to take steps in that direction, right Like obviously you know, like I always want to move forward. Um, Naturally, we're going to have hiccups in the road no matter who we are, no matter what we do. Right, but as long as you can learn from anything that you've gone through to be better, right, to be more knowledgeable, to be more prepared. And I feel like you're growing and you're learning. So I mean, and you're just I don't know, you have a better opportunity to do absolutely anything you want, right, Like, I don't know, Like I like, preparation is something that's so important, right, So how are you going to prepare? You know? Like I need sleep, I need to eat, I need to drink water, I need to study like whatever it is, right, Like, process those five things that you need to do and focus on those, right Like I always feel like when you start doing too many things, you start losing your mind, right, you know, instead of just simplifying it and take on five things, do five things well for thirty days. You create that habit, and then you in another thirty days you can do five other things right, and you just build this whole plethora of weapons or whatever you want to go through life to be ready for anything that you come across. I have to imagine, for a good chunk of your life, you were always going from one thing to the next. I never stopped. Were you acknowledge were you taking time to smell the roses when you're winning these medals? Did you take a step back and practice self acknowledgement and say I'm proud of myself for this, or did you just keep on rolling? I just kept on going. I probably still don't understand fully what happened in my career because so after the first Olympics, I was in the water the day after I finished competing to get ready for the two thousand four Olympics. After the two thousand and four Olympics, I was in the water, I think a week after getting ready for the two thousand eight Olympics. After two thousand eight Olympics, I pretty much said go for yourself, and I took six months off and I didn't do anything. So yeah, I mean there was there was no real time for me to to sit back and to understand what I was doing. We were always chasing something, pushing ourselves to bigger limits. Yeah, I mean, I don't know when it will ever sink in. I hope soon, but I mean I can look at the metals now and it hasn't sunk in. I mean, just people reading my bios. It's crazy to think, like, I don't understand how it just twenty years and it's gone, it's finished, it's over. It was fun. I don't know. I feel like it's such a tight rope of you know, wanting to push your limits and be the greatest possible version of yourself that you can be, but at the same time also respecting the human that's you know, jumping in the water, or the human that's underneath the face mask and the shoulder pads. It's like, how do I find this balancing? You just like feel like you're gonna fall every time as you take a step. But I mean it's something that's worth the journey going on. Like for me, I don't I have a hard time. Donnie will tell you have a hard time acknowledging myself for you know, things I do well and just stopping because it's like I gotta be the next movie, gotta go bigger, I gotta continue to you know, do this, do that. And it's like, man, at what costs, you know, at the expense of me. It's like, at one point, am I gonna really be willing to say, you know, it's not going to be at the expense of me anymore. I don't think I've gotten there yet, but I feel like, you know, I'm on my way, but it's sure it's a difficult balance. I think, yeah, I mean I think for me, like I undred percent here say I agree with you because I think for me. Throughout my whole career, I looked at myself as an athlete, not a human being, right Like I didn't see this in the mirror. I saw my cap and goggles going out to race, like, I didn't see myself as Michael Phelps the person. So my identity was strictly around the pool. And that took a long time for me to understand and to process and to realize that I am a human And I think really over since I guess over the last seven years since I retired, I think that's where I've finally been able to see, yeah, I'm a human being, like because I get so annoyed people like, oh my god, you used to be that swimmer, Like really, like that's what you're gonna say, kidding, Um, but it's it's it's weird. Um, But I think, yeah, I think it's so important to make sure like you know who you are and you can find who you are. Um, because it's it's for me, it's been a cool experience. It's been hard, but it's it's so much better to be able to feel good in your own skin, right, Like I'm comfortable with my own skin now for the first time. Like it's awesome. It's great, Like I feel like a normal person. So it's yeah, I don't know, I don't know how else to explain it. I'm still learning this. Well. It all comes back to the most important relationship will ever have is the one you have with yourself. We have with ourselves. Um. I was just talking to your wife prior to us going live, just about how when we get right with ourselves, how now that starts to trickle into all of our other relationships and I've heard you talk a lot about your guys's relationship because when you started to do your own work, well, guess what happened. She started to see the fruits of the labor, and you guys got a stronger connection. And it's like, you know, I'll say for me when I like going into a therapy, Going into therapy for me was kind of weird and kind of scary, like I didn't know what to expect. So when I went into therapy, I was able just to open up and to learn so much more and understand that it's okay to not be okay, understand it's u okay to talk about your emotions and your feelings. And you know, I think what Nicole and I have gone through together and separately in our own journey, I think has given us the opportunity to be the parents that we are today and the people that we are today. And without those steps, I don't think we'd be able to do that. Um. I think we have so many more tools now than we've ever had. And and UM we keep getting more right like through through the work that I know my wife is doing and the work that I continue to do. UM, we just acquire more and more tools. And it's I mean, like that's that's me. Like you always hear me talk about tools, like I want to go through life with as many tools as I possibly can because I want to be prepared for anything that comes my way. Um, you know that's That's just one thing I guess I was kind of kind of obsessed with throughout my career, like I want to be up just I'm gonna stop because I'm just gonna keep going. No, Yeah, I mean the tools are are everything. And it sounds like, you know, you're trying to give those tools to other people. What does what does the Michael Phelps Foundation uh do? And uh what does y'alls impact move back? So the foundation I started the foundation in two thousand and eight. I received a million dollar bonus from an old sponsor and and uh instantly we started microL Phelps Foundation to the I Am Program So I'm healthy, I'm strong, I'm active. So it teaches kids basically ways to go about life. It teaches you how to goal set, it teaches you the importance of water safety. Water safety drowning is the second highest cause of death for children under the age of fourteen, and it's behind car crashes and then also that another thing that we just implemented this year, I guess the last two years as a mental health component, being able to understand your eight basic emotions for me, like when I was in when I was in treatment, being able to just understand what's coming from different spots in my body with emotions and this and that. And I think if you're able to recognize that, to talk about that, and you're able to grow and move on, right, So I feel being able to implement that in a a younger AIDS for kids so they have that ability to understand it, but also have the ability to know that it's okay to open and talk right Like how you know, I mean I could for myself, I stuff things down, not as much as I used to do, but I used to stuff absolutely everything, every single thing down that I didn't want to talk about. That's all that's gonna do is pile up inside of me and then it's gonna make me blow up. So like, why don't we teach these to teach this simple basic AID emotion strategy where you can talk about these things to kids at a younger age, right, Like I mean, I wish I would have known these things way younger, way long ago, you know what I mean, right, Like things would be so much easier. But like I just I want to give everybody the chance to be able to do whatever they want to accomplish, and to be able to do that, like, we have to be more prepared in our everyday life today than we ever have been with everything that's going on. So for me, it's been cool to see kids overcome fears, overcome obstacles, hearing the stories of them breaking through barriers and really just accomplishing whatever they wanted to and surprising themselves. For me, there's nothing greater because then they get to go back to the drawing board and shoot for the sky even harder. Right. So it's like that's how I like, That's how I want to like For me, that's why I was as a kid. U. So yeah, again, give every kid that chance. They deserve it. Well, those pillars of your the mental health side of your foundation, I heard affirmations in there, which is creating a belief system in yourself, which once again, the only story that matters is when you tell yourself the power of the mind body connection, that the body remembers everything, and that like our guest Trent Shelton said, what we what we suppress turns into depression. The body remembers it. It's not going anywhere. This is why I'm fascinated with with yoga and teach yoga and teach the power of it because I love the twelve steps. But there's, in my personal opinion, one missing piece, and that's the mind body connection, moving energy, moving stuck energy where our guilt or shame, our resentments, all of it, it's in there. We have to we have to move it. We have to move and breathe mindfully in order to free it up. Because energy can't be destroyed, but it can be shifted. And to be able to do that, and that's why you walk out of a class feeling feeling light and free. Yes, yes, yes, What are you most grateful for today? Honestly just being here, UM, being where I am, you know, being able to have the family that I am, the family that I have, UM, and being in the shoes that I am, you know, honestly, being able to go through the ups and the downs that I've been through. UM. Still struggling with them, um, and and they're not gonna go away, right like my depression my anxiety, it's not gonna go away. And who I am? Um? So yeah, I mean for me to be able just to look at myself in the mirror and like who I am, Like I'm I'm just grateful. I'm grateful to be here. Um. I mean, twenty fourteen was scary. Um, last year was scary. Um. Yeah, I'm lucky. I know that in life, we learn everything at the pace and at the time that we're supposed to learn it. But if you could look back and maybe say something to that a younger version of Michael that would maybe help him navigate some pitfalls or different areas of his life, what would you say to him? That's hard because I think I would. I don't know if I would give anything because the road that I traveled brought me to where I am today. So if I would have not had some of those steps, I wouldn't be as comfortable as I am today. So all the pain that I went through and the hard times that I went through, I had to go through it in order to be who I am today, in my opinion, So yeah, it's yeah, yeah, absolutely, I wouldn't change anything at all. That's the answer from someone that's clearly done the work because you have trusted the process that everything has happened the way it's supposed to an order for your soul to evolve, to be sitting here today and to be talking about something super super powerful. I mean, things happen for a reason, right Like, I mean, like we always hear that line, right, everyone always says that, But it's true, Like things happen for a reason. They happen when they're supposed to, right, Like, we can't control it, so just do what we do, what we're supposed to do, right, put one foot in front of the other and keep learning, keep growing, and everything else will handle itself. I think, I don't know. I agree. I believe that it's it's not the event that happens, it's the meaning we attached to it. And that's kind of having that growth mindset and seeing every opportunity, every struggle, every setback is an opportunity for strength. And for a lot of my time in my addiction, I was the victim. I wasn't taking personal responsibility for my own life. I was blaming everybody else. He's so resentful to It was this doctor that screwed me over. That was, you know, supposed to have my back and left me hanging right, and I was just buried in that until I owned it. When I got in treatment. What I came to realize was it wasn't the physical like I had a major, major surgeries and and I could blame it on all the pills I was getting, but at its core, I didn't want to feel the emotional pain of the loss of baseball, the love of my life. So that's why I resonate so much with with your story and the Weight of Gold and all the Olympians. I mean, that was like really really struck a chord with me. That was that was such a cool piece to be able to do that, you know, I remember, literally, I think it was it was twenty sixteen at the opening ceremonies and we were getting ready to walk out. I basically looked around to the other athletes. I almost could see it on their face. They were struggling, like literally it was like written, like their emotions were written across their face. And I'll never forget saying, oh shit, this is bigger than anything I have ever imagined, could ever imagine. And then when we were able to get all of the athletes that we did to stand up and share their story. Number One, we would never have imagined that five years ago. Right, you never have twenty people stand up and talk about mental health ever. So I have to take my hat off and thank them because I know it's not hard, as we know to share our stores, but we do grow a lot from our stores. To be able to have all of us come together share our stories, but also to realize that they're all pretty similar. Every one of our stories are pretty damn similar. So like to me, I just it just shows that we need to do One, we need to do more work with mental health. That has to be an important thing. We can't shove it on the rug anymore and we need to address it. But two, Like I mean, it's just there's so many things I want to say. Sorry, I get say it all. There's a lot in here. But like being able to have all of okay, I'm gonna start over, being able to have all of us come together to share our story. They're similar, but they're different. We all we're all trying to accomplish the same exact thing, but we also experience this name exact feelings and emotions. To be able to put that together when we did the timing that we did, I thought it was perfect. We wanted to get it out before the Olympics even happened, and it came out in the middle of the pandemic. The rawness of it for me was something that I that I thought was needed. Like this, the conversation with mental health is never easy. Nobody enjoys having that conversation. But we have to have the conversation if we want to change. And if we don't have the conversation, how many other people are going to commit suicide? Right? The suicide rate has continued to rise over the last five years. So what are we going to do? We gotta change. We have to talk about things. So, you know, I think really over the last two or three years, we've been able to kind of break down a lot of the walls surrounding mental health. And I think the Weight of Gold has helped. I think Simone Biles has helped. I think Naomi Osaka has helped. You know, I can name one hundred, one hundred different people right that that have really helped break this wide open. But it's not enough. We need more. We need more people, We need more help. This is something that's real it's it's it's it's it's something that that. I mean, it's bigger than any of us can even fathom. Like when I started on this journey after the Games, like I knew it was big, I didn't know it's this big. And I still don't understand how big it is. But I know it's pretty damn big. And I know we need a lot of help. We need all the help we can get to continue to blow this conversation open, blow the doors off of it, save as many lives as we possibly can, because there are people, millions of people that are struggling just like me, just like us, and they don't know what to do and they're lost. So I mean, I I like to always say, open up, talk about as much as you possibly can. UM. You know, I want to try to start as many conversations around mental health as I possibly can. UM. The Way to Goal was a great start, but we have a lot of work. Thank god you came back for those twenty sixteen Olympics because you came back with a whole other level of awareness where you were able to see I think the one thing that connects us all it's pain. Pain is part of the shared human experience. And I think that's why I've brought this up on previous podcasts with COVID, where you would think no one was immune to it, so that was a common thing that everybody, we were in it together. But yet you saw all this projection and a lot of disconnection, and it's all because of unfaced fear and unfaced trauma, the people not doing their own work. So I'm just glad you came back because I think it really set you on this trajectory to where you are today. But I think, like I think God like, if I look back to that, like, I wouldn't able. I wouldn't have been able to come back had I not done the work right like, because my head wouldn't have been cleared and I wasn't fully I wouldn't have been fully engaged. So I think for me, the work that I did freed me up to be basically a ten year old kid in candy store and I was just loving the world. When I'm trying to climbing the mountain and it was the easiest climb you could ever imagine. It was freer, right, like you're not holding on to something, basically do whatever you want, right like it's I don't know. That's why I feel like my football career as it's, you know, kind of recreated itself. It's just the work on the human being proceeded the results on the football field, like that was the only thing that needed work because I stopped it on the field and I was free and I was able to just be myself and not carry all that weight and just it freed up the joy of it, whereas before it was so blocked out and it was it became like a chore, you know, it became like something I had to do, I had to get by, I had to maintain this image. But when I work on the human being underneath the pads, because I had to take him everywhere, it doesn't change my step out there. So when now that he's out there and he's free and he's comfortable in his own skin, it's like it's a whole different product. And with and with that, people are inspired that I've never even thought that I could inspire people, but now people are inspired by the way that I take the field, the way that I just take on life, the way you'd be you right, yeah, yeah, Well, and even to give a look inside of like the work Darren and I do together. It has nothing to do with on the field stuff. We're talking about fears, emotions, self love, like the real talk. And I mean, you know, I might have started as Darren's coach, but I consider one of my best friends today and we're talking on a heart level all the time, telling each other I love you, not I love you, man, not love you, but I love you. Yeah. Yeah, And I believe it's it's it's conversations like this and with the platform you two have, it's changing the conversation. And you guys, you guys are doing big work. Thank you. It's fun. You are too, man, we all are. What would you say to somebody that maybe is out there and in one of those dark places and knows are in that dark place, um, but doesn't know what to do about it. I mean, as hard as it is, ask for help, um, talk to somebody, you know, whether it's your loved one, whether it's a friend, whether it's a therapist. Um. And and for a therapist side, like I get it to like where you might have a hard time finding the right therapist for you, right, Like that's a process. Sometimes the therapist you go to just you know, it's not going to work right off the bat. Um. So for me, like I I had to find a number or go through a number of different therapists to make sure that I'm getting the right one that's going to help me move forward. Um. I mean, I guess the only thing is like that person at home, like again, like they have to understand they're not alone. Um, what you're feeling right now, I can say I've felt a lot of crazy, wild feelings down negative feelings, um. And and the only thing like kind of helps me get out of it is whether it's staying on my routine or being around the kids and my loved ones, right like being around the people that love me. For me, I think that's something that I always try to do. But again, like I mean, like the workouts, workouts or something that I have to do, I don't know, Like that routine I think is just so important. So whether it's taking a walk, whether it's meditating that self care, self love. You know you you touched on affirmations when I was in treatment at the Meadows. They said, my therapist told me to say an affirmation every time you walk in through a doorway. How many doorways you think you walk through a day, wow in and out of the bathroom, and every single time, every doorway you go through stay an affirmation. So I would have like ten or fifteen affirmations just on hand. You just rifle through them. It's unbelievable. You walk taller. It's so good. I mean, like, those little small things are so impactful and they make much a big difference. So I try those maybe, I mean anything, try affirmations, like try talking to yourself in a positive way. I mean, like, look, I can negative tie, I can negative talk to myself like no one's no tomorrow, and I'm really good at it. But you know, I know it's not it's not always healthy for me. And you know I do know that no matter how difficult of a time I'm going through, Like, I know I'm a good person. I know I deserve love, like all of these things like, but you just have to say it and remind that to you. You have to remind yourself from time to time because it's hard when you're in that moment. It's hard when you're in that dark hole and you think the world is caving in. I've seen it all too much over the last two years, well before we wrap up. We love to give love, give a shout out to the people that have been with us through our journeys the whole way. So if you could give a comeback story shout out to anyone in or out of this room. Who would that be? Oh gosh, hold on, sorry, start that again. Uh, just a shout out to anybody that's been there on your journey. We call it a comeback story shout out. He's sitting in front of me. It's my wife. UM, I mean, my wife, bless her, but she's Uh, she's she's been through a lot. We've been through a lot um that I wouldn't want to go through life with anybody else. UM. You know, I know she's the only one on the planet that would help me get through the most difficult times that I've been through. And and look, you've you've heard me talk a lot about the last eighteen months, in the last two years. Um, I had some scary ass times over those those those two years, UM, real dark places, and without my wife, I never would have made it through. So she's the best. She's my rock. She holds me together. Thank you, Thank you for being you, and thank you for being here with us. Today, Man, thank you for showing us you know who you are as a human being. I feel like that's way more IMPRESSI have been anything the swimmer ever could do, and that's saying something. So thank you man, for sure. And it's honestly, this is this has been awesome. Thanks for having me on here, and and I've loved I've loved watching you as a Baltimore guy, obviously a huge fan watch your story pretty pretty closely. To see what you've done now and see where you are today is unbelievable. Man, keep it up, not only what you're doing obviously on the field, but but what you're doing off the field. It's incredible stuff. Thank you man. Yeah, Michael, thank you. I want to acknowledge you too, man, just for showing up the way you do, always being down to do the work, but most importantly carrying the message. Your impact is probably way way bigger than you could ever imagine. So just keep showing up. Man, appreciate it. Thank you, Thanks you. Guessing all right, we're out. 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