Napheesa Collier's Comeback Story

00:00:10 Speaker 1: Welcome back, everybody to another episode of Comeback Stories with my man Donnie. As always always, I always want to show you love off the top. We have an amazing guest with us today. She is a w NBA All Star two times. As a matter of fact, played for the Minnesota Links, was a Rookie of the Year All American in college at Yukon Olympic gold medalists. I mean, we could go all day with her accolades. We're decided to have the FISA Collier today and the FISA welcome. Hey, thanks guys. Now, it's really dope to have you here here on Comeback Stories. We love to dive into your entire journey and start from the beginning, so we want to know what was growing up for you. Like, oh man, we're getting deep early, Yes, growing up. I grew up in a small town in Missouri. So actually it's really hard for media into basketball. I played a bunch of sports before even going in that. I tried to join a basketball team kind of late for you know, the town. When I was in I was in fourth grade and in the beginning, no one wanted me on their team. They already had like their clicks in the city again kind of that small town vibe, and so we just create our own team. We got a bunch of girls from like the surrounding towns and we killed it. Of Course, those teams later on asked if I could be on their team, but it was too late. We already had like a championship team. We're traveling all over the place, winning tournaments, going to nationals, things like that. And then I moved to Saint Louis. When I was sixteen, I joined Incarnate Word. We won three state championships. That's where Yukon sawmy was playing with them. Went to Yukon, got recruited thereon one tip my freshman year and then lost three restart years in a row in the final four, which is tough. And then yeah, I got drafted to Minnesota at six one workie of the year. It was, Yeah, it was tough. I mean all like transitioning from college to I mean high school to college was really tough. My freshman year was definitely like the hardest thing I've had to go through basketball wise. Just mentally, it's so hard, especially at Yukon. You just like everyone going there is the best from where they could come from, and so I knew it would be really hard physically, but just mentally, it was a whole different game the way that he prepares you. And it's the reason why there's so many good Yukon players in the league, and there have been, it's because you know, he takes you in the trenches first, like build up that mental stamina to make you strong, and freshman year is like when it really hits you. So it was tough, but getting through that it was a It was a roller coaster. I had started, I lost my starting spot, I played horrible the whole year, and then finally it kind of just clicked my when we got to the tournament and then you know, I had a good three years after that, and coming into the league, I kind of felt that slump again like I had my freshman year, but thankfully I was able to like kind of recognize that a lot earlier than before, and I again just flipped that switch, and then you know, the rest is history. I got Rookie of the Year, I got I was an All Star that year. Never looked back well, I mean, in order to write a comeback story, it sounds like you've bounced back from multiple adversities just from what you've described so far, Like, what do you accredit that to? Do you credit that to certain principles? Do you credit that to just gaining experience and those those failures being valuable? What do you your resilience? What do you attribute that to? H I think just competitiveness. I mean, as athletes were so competitive and that drive to win is so like fierce and ingrained in you. So I don't know where it came from. Both my parents are competitive, so I don't know if it was bread into me or like nature and nurture. It was both because they're competitive, and then just everything we did it was like you had to win at it. And so I think when you get through those challenges, it's just it's not the end. It's just how am I going to get over that? Instead of it doesn't even cross your mind to stop. So when you have that mentality, it'll take you a lot of places. It will take you pretty far, no doubt. And I feel like, you know, we get introduced to adversity as far as on the external and the internal from a very early age growing up. For me, the first adversity I faced was people told me I was not black enough, So I had this mental narrative from elementary school moving forward that you know, this is gonna be tough for me. I gotta perform for all these people. I gotta show them something that I'm not because I don't feel like i'm enough. They tell me that something is wrong with me. Was there any type of pain or any type of event that harmed you anyway shaped you in any way from your childhood or as a teenager that affected the way she looked at life going forward. Absolutely, I mean I'm the same way. My dad's African, super I mean, like he's black. My mom's wife, she comes from a dairy farm in Missouri, so really opposite cultures growing up, and it was the same. I was, you know, too white for the black people and two black for the white people. And I went to a really really small town when I was in kindergarten. It's the only place that my parents could find for like full day childcare pretty much because the kindergarten's in our town for whatever reason, it was like a half day. And I was the only black person in the whole school K through twelve, And my first like awakening, I guess with that would be we were on the slides. I remember, I guess I was like six, I was a kindergarten and these two girls that I thought were my friends, they were like, we can't play with you anymore because you're black and more white. And I never even thought about that before. I mean, I guess when you're so young and it's normal growing up with a black parent and a white parent, you don't see that as like, obviously you see other people look different, but you're so young and incident at that age, you don't think, you know, you don't think difference a bad thing. You don't realize that in people's minds there's a divide. And so that was kind of the first time that it I mean, I remember it still so obviously. It was like a core memory for me, and it affected how I kind of saw life. I guess it was just like it took away a little bit of innocence in that I hear you on that do you do you feel like basketball in a sense gave you a freedom from those type of environments, But know there may have an emotion feeling like I don't know how I can win here with having both of me being both of these, Like you feel like you may have to choose a side. Perhaps is that something that you feel as as a as a mixed human being, Like, do you feel like there were times in life where you had to choose a side? And with that, do you feel like basketball was an escape or a freedom or just a deep breath from that? I think a couple of times, just in like a negative way. I think growing up, you know, you really want to fit in and again, like I said, and it sounds like you maybe went through the same thing or two you know, white for the black people, too black for the white people. You felt like you had to conform in some ways. So I did feel like growing up, you know, I'm trying to be what other people want me to be. And thankfully, you know, I have a really strong family support and they instill that confidence in myself where I got over that and I saw the value of just being who you are and trying not trying to fit into a mold that other people have. And then I think more recently with like, you know, we have this big social justice push and you can you can like use that how we're in the in between. We can be an advocate for you know, the our side, and we can I don't know. I think it's just easier to see both sides and to kind of be a bridge between two such opposing arguments. So I don't know, I think it's you can use it to your advantage as well. Absolutely, that's that's a really powerful perspective. Um. We talk about the early pain, but we like to you know, compliment that with you know, who were the first teachers you said, You sound like your parents instilled a lot in you, instilled a lot of confidence to be yourself despite the narratives that may have been hitting you from the outside. What were they teaching you from a very young age and what do you value the most about your childhood experience with them? Yeah, my parents, I mean from a really early age, just taught me like the value of the different cultures that I have because especially growing up, we had like the Africans my dad's side, and all of them were Africans, you know, and we had the farmers and like the like country people on my mom's side, and all of them were that and I was the old one that was mixed. So they kind of taught me to embrace that, Like I have the benefit of having two cultures and seeing such different like scopes of life that a lot of people don't have. So I think they just taught me like the value in that. And so I mean, I love my parents. I could talk all day about them, but I just, you know, I thought they did a really great job of turning something that as a kid you might see as a negative being different, and making it into a positive and saying like, this is what makes you special, this is what makes you who you are. I'm going back to how you were commenting. First of all, with the basketball team, You're first crack at basketball and trying to get on a team, and there wasn't any availability on the teams in town, so you created your own team, which I think is a great lesson, and it's very easy, especially at a younger age when we don't have the support maybe or the tools to actually be able to take action and not be the victim or you know, just basically take personal responsibility to make things happen on your own. And then to be on the slide and the kid the slide, and the kids not allowing you to play with them, there's a lot of I mean, that's that's like traumatizing in many ways. But what I'm hearing in a lot of your answers is just a greater perspective. And maybe having those two cultures and having that that foundation of your parents has given you that perspective. But I mean, do you have any other like, um, can you point to anything else that has that has allowed you to kind of see the world that the way it is today? Uh? I really attribute that to basketball. I've been able to see and meet so many different people through it, Like I've been able to travel to different countries, travel around the world, and I think that, I mean just naturally gives you a really good perspective because you're not stuck in one place. You know, even growing up from when I started in sixth grade traveling AU, we're traveling all across the country, like, you get to meet different people, So I think naturally that just makes you a lot more well rounded. And then also just being on a team it like you have to work with people whose personalities are different from yours, but also allows you to work with people who like lives that you've never seen. Especially growing up in a small town, I wasn't exposed to a lot of different lifestyles. Like we all pretty much were like grew up the same in the same area, and so being on different teams were people from different towns, and then as I went to college, people from different states, you know, different countries, things like that. Just seeing how they grew up and what their experiences were like, it just allows you to see the worlds in a different way, and it does give you that bigger perspective of where you grew up is not how everything is. It's not the way that everything is. We talk a lot about self love and loving ourselves and not being good enough. And I think in my experience as a coach and just even my own personal experience and anybody I've ever talked to you you, there's this story of the not enough story, which manifests in many different ways. How do you feel like, I mean, it sounds like you very easily could have had that story when you're too black for the white and too white for the black people, that you could have that not enough story kind of take you down a dark road. Was there any times where that not enough story was kind of hijacking your life into a messy place in your mental health? So I guess I'm curious how did it help you? And then how did it maybe hurt you having that story or just going through what you went through. I think so far as like as a kid through high school, like I said, I have a really strong family unit unit, and then also being good at sports like that kind of deters that. Also because you know, I'm the best in the area that I came from, so everyone of course like wants to be your friend when you're the best at something. So I think the first time I had like a real challenge with that mentally was my freshman year of college. I mean it was so tough. Like the way that they try to prepare you at Yukon is like he changes the entire way that you think about the game. So for example, in high school, if we were to do like a backdoor cut, it would be a play. There is no like thinking on your own, like creating kind of thing. And then at Yukon, our offense is basically like an outline circle, like you have general rules and then you work within that. You have to you know, basically expand your basketball IQ, which was just it was so hard to do because physically you're exhausted, like you're a freshman, You're playing with the best players in the world. Brianna Stewart was my senior, So you know you're coming to a super prolific organization and so there's just a lot of nerves on that already, and then on top of that, your ass to like you're exhausted, it's been three hours you're playing, and then you have to think at the top of your game otherwise you know it's gonna be you're not. It's not good. So I think just having that pressure like it was a lot. And I really really struggled my freshman year just mentally, like for some reason, I couldn't remember a play and I've never had a problem with that before. And then once that started, that just got into my head and it just like spiraled. And that's when I was saying, like, my freshman year is such a roller coaster for me. And finally I just got to the point where like I'm done feeling like this. I hate this feeling. Playing is not fun for me anymore, and so I just let go. And once I did that, I became the player that I knew I could be. And so for me, I've really taken that lesson in everything, like when I try to be perfect and I try I put all this pressure on myself. It's never good when I do what I put in the work. I know how good of a player I am when I rely on that, it's just it's I just found that it's always so much better for me. You may have just answered my next question, but I was going to ask you, what do you think was the biggest thing holding you back? Was it the perfectionism that you were just talking about, or was it something else? It was definitely me, just the pressure that I put on myself, because again I keep saying this, but everyone at Yukon's the best from when they best of where they come from. And so I just assumed, you know, like, yeah, it's gonna be hard, but I'm a good player, I'll be fine. And when I wasn't, it just messed with me so much because I know, like my level of potential and when I'm not living up to that, it's just frustrating. And so that just got into my head and it just kept like stacky on, stacky on, and I think I just snowballed it in my head, and for whatever reason, I couldn't get out of that loop until I just until I just got to the breaking point where I was just, you know, I'm done feeling like this. What was like the lowest point? What was it? If you can take us back to that moment, Hey, I do remember because I had already gotten to like that bad mental state pretty much. But for whatever reason, I don't know if we had an injury or something, I got like a starting spot. I had played a couple of good games in a row, and that like added pressure to me. I'm like, okay, I'm a starter, I'm a freshman, I'm playing with all these great players, coaches. You know, he has this faith in me. I need to perform well. And I had sucked and we were at Memphis, I remember, and I lost my starting spot at halftime, and I was just like shit, I mean it was I mean, that was really tough because I knew I was playing bad. I knew I didn't deserve to have that spot, which is just even worse and even worse feeling because I'm like, I know I could have it, but the way I'm performing, yeah, I don't deserve it. And then he took it, and so I think that just kind of that was definitely like my low point. I gotta I gotta stop because she said when she talked when Nafisa, when you talked about letting go, and I'm tired of feeling this way. So when I let go, you know, these things started to happen. My journey really started to commence among from me being a better player, my IQ growing. And I feel like there's such a like a life lesson in that, because I feel like so many people want to be so great or a master at what they do so quickly that you know if they're not that exactly when they want to be, that they put so much pressure on themselves. I've done the same thing on numerous occasions, and it's like when you allow yourself to say, I'm gonna let go of the timetable on when I become great or the timetable on when I improve, and just be present to this journey and enjoy it like no wonder you were able to blossom from there, because then from there the discomfort and those challenges like being benched at halftime, you could be able to start to use those to your advantage as opposed to holding them over yourself and just walking under that dark cloud at all times. So I feel like for the people that are listening, like to hear what you said there and to really take that in is such a valuable life lesson and I just wanted to stop and just acknowledge that that you said that well, I think you phrase it in a great way. Putting a timetable on it is really what messed me up, because I'm like, I need to be good now. But when you know the potential and you're confident in yourself, like I know I can get there, but I don't need to do it tomorrow. You're absolutely right, Like what stressed me out is putting a timetable on it instead of just like enjoying the process and taking the journey to get there. Just yeah, So I like to tell you with that so much easier said and done. But yeah, that's such a valuable lesson of the idea of like people think the pot of gold is at the end of the rainbow, but the pot of gold is actually the rainbow. It's the journey. And I think the attachment to what I'm gonna get when I do this work instead of like who I'm going to become because of this work, And I'm just going back to your adversity and I can't even imagine freshman year, being thrown at the highest level in that environment with that coach. What a gift to be able to go through all that. Yeah, I do it again. It was the hardest point in my life, but I would do it again. It made me the player that I am today. So what lessons, Like, what are a couple of the lessons that you would take maybe from your years, your college years or that specific year or that circumstance, Like what lessons are you still carrying on today? And maybe they turned into tools or a mindset. They absolutely turned to a mindset. And that's kind of what I was talking about with my rookie year. I had a horrible training camp. I scored like six points in all our training camp games combined, and I felt myself kind of reverting back to how I fell as a freshman, just like not confident when I'm doing that snowball fact of like I need to be good now. And thankfully I was able to catch it and like realize that I'm doing the same thing that I did as a freshman, and thankfully didn't take me seven months to get out of it again, only two weeks. But whenever I feel myself kind of get into a run like that. Again, the lesson that I learned as a freshman absolutely comes into play, and I just allows me to take a breath, to know that I've been here before and then I've gotten out of it before, and it gives me the confidence to know that, you know, to be able to see, like learn about myself a little bit more and know what those triggers are for me, I guess, and to be able to pull myself out of it. I feel like there may have been the same opportunities for you to go back into that mindset when we talk about like you coming back and playing after your pregnancy, which we can I want to ask you questions about that as well, But you know what what what was? What was that? Like um as compared to these other situations where there's similar thoughts that you had to battle through, Because it seems like from college to you know, the time and training camp, your rookie year and now you know, after your pregnancy you come back and you're bouncing back, and I'm sure that those thoughts may want to creep their way back in, like does it get easier or is it you just is it just something like you get stronger along the way as you continue to battle these thoughts. What what was your take on that. I think the thoughts get easier because I'm able to catch them. But for my pregnancy, I mean, that's the hardest thing I've ever done. I thankfully, you know, knock on what have been really lucky with injuries. So this is the first like true rehab comeback that I've had to do physically, and oh my god, don't recommend like it is hard and I thought, as an athlete, I would just be able to snap back, honestly, and no, that's not what happened. I mean, it was really really tough. And then I came back to the team six weeks after I gave birth. So yeah, it was just like the hardest process that I've ever had to go through physically, And I think the fact that it was so hard, like right from the beginning kind of leveled my expectations a little bit more. And at that point, my only goal was to get on the court, like be around the team, because the only reason I came back was to be around Sylvia. It was for last year, so I wasn't expecting to come back and win MVP, and I think that might be the difference. Like the other times I'm healthy, I know what I can do, I'm just not living up to my own expectations, And for this one, I'm like, there's no way, Like you know your body, and I know there's no way that I'm going to be able to be back in ten weeks you know how I was before. So that definitely helped just the mental side on that end. But you know, you know, she's nine months old now and it's taken me probably a good eight months to get to feel how I did before. So during that time was probably the hardest mentally, not because there's a time stamp. I mean, there is the season's always looming over your head like I need to be ready, I need to be ready for that, but it's just like, am I ever going to be ready? That's kind of what it feels like, because it's such a long time for your body to get how it felt before. So just getting over that mentally was probably, you know, the longest stretch that I've had to go through where I'm like, you know, can I do this? I feel like I'm going to ask something where it's going to take us maybe somewhere we've never gone before. But when Darren was asking about what it was like with the mental thoughts. But it reminds me of a conversation I was having with my partner the other night about hormones and like dealing with all of that and how much of a mind fuck that can be. And I remember an old X that I had that was going through a process with hormones and doing the whole um harvesting her or getting her eggs, and I just remember the emotional roller coaster ride that went on. I remember one time she she cried because I used your yoga Matt. I mean, I just don't we don't understand that. As guys, we don't understand that. Like I'm taking it personally, like what's wrong with you? But there's actually like a full So I don't know where this is gonna go. But I'm just curious, like, and we have a lot female listener, so maybe we can. And this is great education actually for the male listeners to be able to understand that process, but for you to go through that and then also creating this comeback to get on the court and then be a mom. Can you tell us a little bit about that experience. The hormones are crazy. It's not your fault. Let me just tell you, Like, because there's instances like the yoga map where you're like, Okay, I know I'm being irrational, but I can't help it. But there's other instances where it's just like you feel like you're one hundred percent right, and then looking back now that I have like a clear head, I'm like, I was actually crazy. But they mess with your head. I mean obviously the hormones, Like it's a chemical imbalance in your brain that's not usually there, So you're crying over everything, like you're irritable over everything, and then it starts to feel normal. I'm like, is it me or is it the hormones? I don't know, so I think it was probably rougher on Alex because he's on the how to deal with it, But yeah, the hormones are crazy, and there's so much stuff I didn't know either, Like there are hormones that relax your entire body, which was one of the reasons why it was so hard for me to get back in shape, Like so your pregnant belly, your abs are on the side like this, so they're that spread out and you have to get them back together. Where they were, which is not easy. And then breastfeeding continues to have that hormone release in your body which makes everything relax, so you have no fast switch muscles, so that means you can't jump, I means you can't go side to side to defend. And those don't go back for a full year after you stop breastfeeding, So technically my joints are still not as like strong as they were before or as fused together as they were before. So it's just like such a process and there's so many different hormones doing so many different things. It's just it's a lot that I didn't know either. The women are the real heroes of this world. I keep thinking, over sure, we got it pretty easy over here, about were there moments in your pregnancy where you had maybe like a fear of missing out on basketball or you know, was there pressure or like you making this decision, like one, is this something that a lot of players in your league fear doing to to start a family, And what was it like mustering up the courage to do it? If you were really having these thoughts about I don't know, what's this going to do to my career? Like what was that like yeah, so um me, it was like a happy surprise. And so it's not like I planned her and I was thinking about the season, but as soon as I found out, I was pregnant. Like calling my coaches one of my first thoughts because I knew she had to think about the season. So it's definitely a thought in your head. And I mean it's actually a problem now. I mean, I'm sure you guys have seen like the drama surrounding Deerica in just like it's hard because we have a new CBA that has often awesome benefits from others. So like I got my full salary even if I didn't play a game. There's other accommodations, but it's still like the money comes off the salary cap for us. So it's still like a It's a bad thing for teams because you're having a player that's not playing be self to pay for them, and so it could still have like repercussions for the player because maybe I don't want to hire a player that's in childbirth, that is straight, or that is thinking about having a child, or that you know, all these things. They have to take that into consideration now, which is bad for the players. So it's still like kind of a bad thing that you have to think about. So, I mean that's something that we have to change in our league. And yeah, I mean it's always in the back of your mind. If you want a child, these are the things that you have to think about because it could have negative you know, a reaction with your team or potential teams. For maybe a future w NBA player that's going to say, hey, I'm still going to go this route despite what a team may think, or despite what repercussions there are, because I want to start a family. How would you help them? What words would you give them to be able to focus on the blessing that it is as opposed to maybe the pressure that is pushing them on the career side of their life. Yeah, it's they want to have a family. One hundred percent I would encourage them to do that. I mean, she's, you know, the best thing that's ever happened to me, and it's so special and there's so much more to life than basketball in your career. So one hundred percent I would say, don't let that be the reason to stop you. Um, it's definitely something you have to consider, but it shouldn't be a deterrent at all. And that's kind of my point with where we need to get with our league. It's so special to have a families. And if they are worried about the team, I would say, maybe try to plan it so you could be back for the next season, But I don't know I would. I would definitely encourage them if they're thinking about it, because it's just the best thing. Ever. What are you learning? What are you learning from your daughter? What are some lessons you're a new teacher? Yeah, seriously, I'm learning that she controls the entire household and I'm learning that, Uh, I guess, just like how to let someone be themselves entirely because with a person like I mean, she's a person obviously, but like with an adult, you can like converse back and forth like why are you doing this? Or what's your motive behind this? And with her, she's just on herself. Everything she's doing is like based off an instinct. So it's just really kind of cool to see like how she goes about her day to day things like why are you doing that? And it's just it just really makes you appreciate who people are and just like I guess who they are in like their purest sense because there's nothing that's happened to her to mold her like into a personality yet, but she has so much so it's just like it's so I don't know, it's just like I don't know how to explain it properly, but it's just really cool to see like a personality that hasn't been molded. It's just like who she is. I don't know if I explained that, right, Yeah, I feel that because like I'm I'm sitting here, I'm not a parent, but I'm thinking, like if I were to have a kid like I feel like that would be the real true test of like unconditional love, because it's like this little cute little person can do nothing for me. They cannot like, and I'm caring for them all their needs, all the things that I have to do for them and serve them without getting anything in return. And I feel like that's such a lesson right there, in love and acceptance of people where they are in their situation. Like we have grown people out here that are you know, babies and toddlers and emotional intelligence, but we if we have to accept these people where they are, even though you know, they may not be producing a whole lot in their lives, Like you know, I feel like something like that would be the ultimate lesson in teaching you, like, I can love this person even though they can't do anything for me, because we naturally we love people when it's like, oh, they they got our back, or they can you know, give us a hook up or you know what I'm saying. Yeah, and it sounds like not only can they oh sorry, no, you go ahead. I was gonna say, not only can they not do anything for you, but they literally just take and take from, take fromute, and then you'll just you don't care like you want them. You want to give them everything that you have, and you the love that you have is so unconditional, so it is, like you said, just so pure because they're not going to give you anything, it's just but then the way that they look at you, it feels like the best gifts in the world. So it feels like they are giving you something because the unconditional love it goes with ways. When if you do become a parent, you'll know, just like the way that they look at you, they feel that same love back. And it's awesome. Yeah, I had done some deep medicine work a year a little over a year and a half ago, and one of the pre integration questions was what part of you do you want to reclaim? And for me, it was my childlike heart. I feel like at some point like I didn't really laugh out loud and it didn't feel natural to laugh out loud. And since then, kids whatever age, younger kids, I live over on the beach in San Diego and watching kids on the beach and just they're my teachers of that whole idea of never losing your childlike heart. I think as we grow older and pain starts to happen to us, our emotional needs aren't met, we start to get hard, and we start to close our hearts and protect and what I hear you saying, and now that it's just that that pure, that childlike joy, that bound authenticity. They're not worried about when anybody else thinks of them. So there's just amazing lessons to be able to sit back and watch them. That's what I'm learning. And every time I see a child now, it's like I just see the joy. I see them making sandcastles or running away from the waves and It's a great reminder and it truly, truly has helped me getting back to like your mindset mental health. Darren and I are often talking about routines, rituals, habits. What does that look like. Do you have a morning routine? What are your like, your mantras, your affirmations, your anchors. Do you have a meditation practice? What does that look like? Yeah, what are your practices to keep your mind right? Yeah? I don't have a meditation, but I really need to. I've been thinking about it for a long time and I just really just need to pull the trigger. The problem is I am not a huge I'm super go with the flow, but then having a kid like makes you not be like that. So that's another thing I've learned from her is like you have to be honest schedule and it just really goes against everything in me. So that's been kind of the biggest adjustment. And so now my morning looks like wake up around like five five thirty, feed Mela, you know, usually go to a workout, lift basketball, come back, take your meal for the rest of the day. Yeah, put me a little bed, and then we kind of have my like kneetime again, you know. I love like reading, watching shows and movies. But my day, my schedule kind of revolves around her, so she's kind of the one that has put me on that Now. Is there anything that you've gotten away from, like anything you'd like to be doing in your self care practice that you're not doing now, Maybe something you were doing before and because you have someone to care for now and not you don't have as much time, you've gotten away from that, or anything else that you know you want to bring in that you haven't yet. Yeah, for sure, I'd love to bring back naps. I was a big nappers. Yeah, I do try to, like because I know that mental health is such a big thing. I do try to keep like some of my same practices, like skincare. I try to make sure that I'm doing my skincare every day, and it just makes me feel a little bit better just to know that I'm taking care of myself in that way. There of course, there's a lot of stuff that I used to do before that I just don't have time for anymore. I mean, I could just spend a whole day like I love binging shows. I could spend a whole day meaging a show before or like reading a book or napping, So just things like that that you know I used to do those before, but I do try to take like some time in the day just for myself. I would love to add meditation to it. Though you might be talking to the right person. I might be able to help you out a little bit. I teach yoga and meditation. And it's interesting that when I tell it's usually men that I tell that I teach meditation, and they'll say I can't meditate. My mind never stops thinking, or they say I can't meditate. I don't have the time to meditate. But meditation actually gives you more time because what it ultimately does is cultivate more awareness, and then you start to notice the things that you're that are stressing you out that you don't have control over um. And the awareness is the first step in creating any kind of change in your life. And so when we are aware that our minds going down some road and we're worrying about something that happened yesterday, or we're trying to change somebody that we don't have control over, the awareness brings us we don't waste time on it anymore, and we don't waste energy. So the hack is it's actually it actually gives you more time. It opens up your perspective and opens up your life because you're gonna you're gonna be more aware. Ultimately might hell you bafter the show? Then yeah, I got you the man right trust me? Um, I want to ask you, like you said earlier, Um, No, life is a lot more than basketball. How do you balance that going forward? As I'm sure you still want to have longevity in your career, but at the same time, you know, having your daughter an account, Um, what do you what do you imagine the future for yourself looking like, whether it be certain product jakes or certain fields, certain passions like do you what have you come up with or thought about so far as what that might look like? For sure, basketball, like career wise, is still my number one thing. I want to play for as long as my body will let me. And so that's kind of my number one goal right now is to make sure that I'm putting my body in the right like physical shape. I guess to be able to do that because longevity is, you know, so hard, it's like the hardest thing. So I'm doing rehab almost every day on my by just making sure that everything's up to part you know, obviously eating healthy, working out things like that, because I mean, my number one career goal right now is basketball related, and then other than that, like after basketball, Like that's a million dollar question. I just I want to find what my passion is, and so I've been exploring different a lot of different kind of career paths. I guess because I want to I want to be able to do something after I graduate, or graduate after I retire that is like meaningful to me and not just a job that I have to take as I'm done playing. I love that a lot. I'm really interested in knowing certain people's leadership styles. You're somebody that's accomplished a lot, but at the same time, you've also overcome a lot mentally and overcome a lot of different situations of adversity. So how do you go about trying to be a leader and encouraging these young players that may have a two week stretch in training camp like you had in your rookie year, Like what kind of thing is do you try to instill in them? How do you try to show up for them along their journey? Yeah, So, well, first of all, I haven't been in training camp since I was a rookie, so this will be my first one since then. Yeah, so we'll see how my leadership is in that specific like instance. But you know, before, like especially in college, I would say my leadership style was show by example. But as I've come into the league and you know, become like more of a captain and like focal point for Minnesota, I know that my leadership style has had to grow and so just becoming more vocal. It's not like naturally for me to be that kind of person, but over the years, I feel like I've grown in that area and it's something that I'm really going to have to put to the chest this year because I am the main person on our team now you know, Sylvia's retired and so that falls on my shoulders now. So I'm excited to be able to answer your question better after this season because I'm going to try to implement everything that I've learned and to this point into my leadership style this in this season. I love that because I mean that's I mean, if there's anything me and Donnie stand on, it's that none of this stuff that we preach about or that we talk about or discuss like, we don't have any of this stuff completely figured out. We're continuing to learn, continuing to practice along the way. So definitely excited to see how that happens for you going forward. You know, really become a fan of the w over the last couple of years, real good friend of the show, Kelsey Plumb. Really just being in that environment, seeing your team come to town, really all the teams in the league. But I say all I have to say, I'm excited to see what you do in the imprint that you have on the young players or your team. Awesome, Thank you. How do you be in the leader now? How do you deal with pressure? Are there tools? How do you work through it? Who do you talk to? What does that look like these days? I've actually never minded like outside pressure before. I think I'm definitely my hardest critic, so outside pressure, I think that just makes you better. So I actually like when we have those kind of pressures, and the way that I think I deal with it is I don't know, especially I think when I get off the court, I just really decompressed. So I don't want to watch, especially if I'm going through a slump, like the way that to get me out of it. The fastest is I don't want to watch like film, I don't want to watch basketball. I just want to separate myself from it, and it allows me to recharge. So if I ever feel myself coming under too much pressure from myself or you know, if I'm playing beat or something like that, I think, just like separating myself from sports for a little bit, as that's what I found is like kind of recharges my battery, fills up my cup again where I'm able to go to practice the next day and attack it like I understand what I did wrong. I don't need to harp over it, and just like start the new day. I'm going back to what you said earlier. I might be bias about the meditation thing, but I'm thinking back to what you said about you will play for as long as your body allows you to. And I think this is the power the essence of meditation and mindfulness and really understanding the power of the mind body connection because our body goes along for this like emotional roller coaster ride by the madness that happens in our minds. And so the essence of these practices are to really use the mind to work for us and not against us, and to be our best friend and not our worst enemy. And I think a lot of times that voice, that inner voice, that inner critic who puts that pressure in that perfectionism on us, can drive us and it gets us to the top. But how do we make it sustainable then? And I think that's why we want to put more emphasis on taking care of our mind and taking care of our mental health because there's no separation. So this isn't just to sell you on meditation. I think it's for anybody, any high perform or anybody that's feeling banged up in their body. A lot of times, you know that big ass not we get in like our shoulders in our neck. That's not physical. It's like it's coming from our thoughts. It's coming from our mind. It's coming from stress. And all stress is really wanting the moment to be something that it's not right. So it goes back to that like awareness of noticing when we're trying to control something and then we just got to let that shit go. And it's cool because Darren and I name this podcast Comeback Stories, and it has like multiple meanings, but a lot of the essence of meditation is to come back. So it's not about not thinking. People think it's like I'm gonna sit and not think. But if you try not to think, you're just going to think more. Because what we resist persists, it ends up causing more. So you just sit back and observe what you're thinking about, and it starts to create awareness. Because we have six to seventy thousand thoughts a day, that's what the research says, and ninety percent of those thoughts are the same thoughts we had yesterday. So basically we're thinking about the same shit, and the things that have us stressed out are the same things that we were thinking about yesterday. But it's only through awareness that we can actually change that and find a little freedom from like those patterns of thinking. So yeah, we can definitely talk more. I can talk about this stuff all day long. But it's just the power of the mind. And if we do want to play, and we want our bodies to be sustainable and last in life or on the court, then we gotta we gotta protect our peace and protect our mind. I totally agree with you. I think the game in any game is like eighty percent mental, twenty percent physical. You see so many players that like they might not be the most talented, but their confidence is so I mean, Kelsey Palum's a great example, Like she's so confident everything that she does, it's made her a great player. Like she's obviously athletic and talented, but there's players who are more talented, but she's better than them because of her mentality. So I had one hundred percent greath And I think you see it so many times in sports, like if you're mentally there and you're confident what you're doing, it can make up for so much. Yeah, I mean, look no further than this guy over here in this brown shirts and at the table. I mean that made the entire difference in my career. You can ask people like I remember one of the first games that I had was a big game with like the Raiders or like a big nationally telefies games in twenty twenty, and some of my teammates from Baltimore were like about time, Like you used to go for like two hundred yards in practice, like regularly, And I'm like, and I look back on that, I'm like, the talent was there to be able to produce and make an impact then, but everything going on in my mind, everything going on and just my spirit overall was not there. And to be able to step away and to get those things in tact and to be recentered, and then to come back into the world with a purpose and to come back into the game with humility and a new found confidence in myself. To be able to just go through the process like we were talking about earlier, like when you were a freshman, Like to be able to let go and allow things to happen based off the way that work and I approach it bam, like things take off, you know, the platforms come, the brand comes, the you know, the numbers come and everything like that. So it's it's all internal, man, It's all internal. Yeah, as I've witnessed you on that journey, I feel like the two things that I've noticed the most that have helped you along that journey or learning to love yourself, which I love that the fact that we talk about this all the time, and I mentioned this often and it makes me smile every time, Like that's kind of my thing. Like my brand, I have a retreat that's called love Yourself. There's shirts on my website that say that. And this just wasn't the way that I was raised and it makes me super grateful to have, you know, share this platform with Darren who for many of the world, they look at a football player like the masculine of all masculine, you know, this manly man. But we're not, We're noticed. We're not even really talking about the actual sport. We're talking about everything else. But that so loving yourself and then I also thinkum figuring out like your purpose beyond the sport, right, So it's like you do so many other things with your with your music, with the podcast, with your foundation, with recovery, that it kind of takes the pressure off and you're not so overidentified with the performance of the sport and your whole happiness is based on if I do this, then I'm I'm good. So that's what I've been seeing from my perspective. I appreciate that, uh nafisa work. Can people find you? I mean, I'm i feel like I've grown a lot just in talking to you, and I'm inspired by your journey work, and people keep track of you on social media, things that you have going on. Where can people find you at? You can find me on Instagram with Nafisa twenty four and then I have a media company with my husband called Through the Lens. It's for athletes just basically, it's like a place for athletes to take back their power in a way where they can host like all of their content and reach their fans more easily. It just allows them to have a lot more access in control when it comes to their personal brands and making money. Can you close this out and maybe just tell us, like, what would you say to somebody that is struggling right now, maybe athlete, maybe non athlete. They know they're struggling, they're stuck, but they don't know what to do about it. Like what would you tell that person? I would tell them to just like take a step back from the situation and try to do something else. That's what always works best for me specifically, like in basketball, if I'm struggling with that, I try to do anything not basketball related and trying to just get out of that headspace for a little bit. So do something that brings you joy, whatever that is, you know, reading, going on a bike ride, going to a movie, and just kind of step away from it for a little bit and then come back to it with a new focus and like a renewed energy. That's always helped me so so beautiful, and I think that's what I see when I hear your story and you sharing is actually what's coming up from his perspective, and that's what happens when we take a step back. We can take a step back and see the bigger picture. And I just want to acknowledge you for your perspective and how far you've come in your story. It's been awesome to have you on the show. I'm super inspired and excited to talk to you more about meditation because I actually meditation helps you with perspective also, but I think you've got that part down, but we're always leveling up around here. I need some meditation, so I'm definitely gonna be hitting you up. Yeah, it's it's been amazing to have you on the show. I feel like there are women that can learn and be inspired by you from childhood to motherhood and everything in between, success, failure, adversity. So thank you for your time, thank you for being open on here and sharing about your experience. We're grateful for your time, and I hope you have great rest of your day. Awesome, thank you guys for having me. I had a good time. Yeah, what's up, comeback Stories, family, It's Donnie in here. So did you know that Darren and E's relationships started by me being his personal development, mindfulness and mindset coach. I want to let you know about both my one on one coaching program, The Shift, and my group Mastermind Elevate your Purpose. These coaching programs are specifically designed for people who are ready to take the next step in their purpose and level up their career, personal finances, and have more connected, deep and meaningful relationships. My gift and part of my purpose is to help others take that next step and leveling up their lives so that they can have a greater impact on the lives of others, create success that sustainable yet evolves and grows, and help build a legacy that will outlive your life. If this is calling you, just go to Donnie Starkins dot com and apply for either one of my programs.