Neal Brennan's Comeback Story

00:00:10 Speaker 1: Welcome back everyone to another episode of Comeback Stories. I got my man Donnie here with me as always Donnie. What's up? Man, d good to be here with you virtually for me today. Yes, sir, good to have you here. Bro. We got an amazing guest here today, someone that really blew me away. UM, if you haven't looked on Netflix and seeing three mics stand up comedy by this man, I really highly recommend it. Uh. Incredibly creative and guys like me and Donnie are so big on vulnerability. It just struck me on so many levels. You may know this man as a director and a writer for The Chappelle Show. Hey, Darren, Darren, I got another one now. I got blocks now on Netflix as well, So let's not just do one special. I got two. Oh my god, my bad. Let me go you, Darren. I also, I have a note before I have been I know, I direct commercial sometimes, and I direct a lot of athletes and and like I did the lebron Sprite commercial that I've done a bunch of them. I did the one with um All Snoop and Samberg whatever. I want you to do the opening again, but I need more excitement. What's up? Like what's up everybody? Welcome another episode. You're ready because the problem is athletes, you guys are all about like deep boys and like what's up y'all? It doesn't you can't express very much at that register. So you gotta give me a high pitched opening and then we'll get into the show. Let's do it is so good? All right, high pitch? Okay, like, what's up? What's up? Everybody? Anytime? Yeah, you want me to count you in? Right, go right, go out ahead, go right ahead, go out of hit and high pitch and three two one action. Welcome back every one to another episode of Comeback Stories. Darren Waller here, got my man Donnie Starkins in the building as well. We have an amazing guest with us today, someone that captivated me with his special on Netflix, three mikes. He also has blocks on Netflix as well. My man's directing Sprite commercials out here. My man's doing everything man writing for the Chappelle Show. I mean, you name him, a man can do it. Love to welcome Neil Brettant to the show. Neil, thank you for being here. Man. All right, let me just say talk about Comeback Stories that the first take was a b minus and that was an A and I still think you got room left to improve. I demand that you keep in the bad opening because people need to see improvement on the show. And I'm it's glad to be here. And remember what I said, athletes. I literally you have the same vocal pitch as M. Devin Booker. So you guys could sound like if I close my eyes, you guys sound like and I was having him go like, ah, so I'm telling you get you can do more. Great to be here anyhow, it's my way of saying, great to be here, Great to have you here. Man. We love to dive right into your story. Could you tell us what growing up for you guys, Like, Okay, growing up was. I'm one of ten kids, right, um, youngest of ten. I think people don't really do anymore. Um um Irish Catholic parents and that's just how they did it, you know. So um so it's my dad was a alcoholic, didn't have to be what he was. Um and uh and you know, ten kids is probably too many to raise with like real you know, to get like the nutrients the love nu trans one needs a lot of violence, chaos and um and but at the you know. The flip side is my dad was a lawyer, so like we had resources somewhat for we did once we shed about nine about seven kids, um, once they moved out. Um and uh and so so I'm I'm grateful for the resources that I've received from my parents, but some of the some of the rest of it was kind of lacking. And then but having said that, I did get, um my brothers and comedians, so I got you know, I got sort of entree into the world of comedy from the from the times in high school, which is huge, you know, and it made it seem like a real thing I could do. And it wasn't this lofty like do you think maybe I could? Like I saw people doing it so um. So yeah, So that was sort of the I mean, I could literally talk endlessly. But that's the that's the childhood one. That's like the short answer for childhood growing up with an alcoholic I imagine this is a chaotic environment very frequently. But is there a distinct moment of pain that stands out to you from your childhood that may have affected you or the perspective that you had towards life. It's a good question. I think you know, there's the thing about alcoholism and violence if you grow up in an violent home, it's the unpredictability, you know, Like that's the hard part. It's like nothing, you never know when it's going to happen and why. And by the way, the reason, the reasoning is never good. It's never like oh yeah, I had that smack comment. It's always random and to my mind it I mean, it's never necessary ever and you know so it kind of makes you generally like defensive um, which sucks as an m for life. Um. And uh yeah, so that would be the there's no one moment, which is kind of worse, you know what I mean, kind of where it's like, oh I knew when X happened, if it rained, I was there was no through line to what was you know, what was going to happen? Uh? In you in three mics, one thing that stood out to me was you talked about how ego and adrenaline played a role in how you responded to the environment you grew up in or just a way to find an escape. Could you explain more of that? Yeah, because of um, you know, like I don't I think like because I was sort of always wordy about it and being around cast and violence, it makes you mute yourself a little bit overall. And and also my dad was a narcissist, so that kind of like sort of makes it's he takes all the auction out, so you kind of can't get any And so as an adult like I, like, I can't say I've experienced or did. Certainly I've progressed in the past few years, but I didn't really know how to experience like joy and connection. I wouldn't say connection, let's say joy. Um, So I would just try to achieve shit, you know. I would try to sell a movie or do a TV show or direct the thing, and that, you know, like trying to accomplish my way out of feeling flat or feeling bad, you know, and then you realize you achieve enough stuff and you're like, hmm, all right, that didn't work either. Now what you know, rarely do you guys do that? Yeah, I've done that my entire life. I feel like I'm now finally starting to find some growth out of trying to perform my way into feeling good or or feeling okay, Like ever since I was a kid, I mean it started for me, like my pain moment was constantly, consistently every day being told that I wasn't black enough, Like why you're black? White? You're black? Why do you listen to this kind of music? You're black? Why do you care so much about, you know, talking properly and having good grades? So it was like every environment I went into everything that I did, I felt like I didn't belong And I always had to put on a mask or do a certain dance in order for you to give me a thumbs up. Because I felt like me just coming to the table as who I was, nothing else added to the picture. Something was always wrong with it, something was always being picked at for it. So I felt like through football, being grown up in the South where football is religion. Literally yeah, like that, there's no way that I can't impress you through what I can do on the field. And and so that is just the main of it. What I mean. It goes into women, it goes into I mean, you name it, but I mean I'm I'm really now at thirty years old, finding my way out of that but still battling with it. Well, but what's I don't know how you experienced it, but you can still run as fast right, even if you're not, even if your entire worth isn't dependent on it, like I'm assuming your forty time hasn't gone down that much. This is yes, it's true. Well that's where people go, well, I don't want to get health people say in comedy, they go, I don't want to get healthy because I don't want to lose my edge. And what you realize is like the body's gonna do it. My body's gonna spit out jokes, and I mean, it's just it's just gonna spit out your You know, your body's gonna do football. You know, to quote my own joke. That's interesting as you bring bring that up. Yeah, go ahead, go ahead, No, no, I'm I'm just saying that it's interesting that you bring it up about the achieving um. If you've ever or those listening ever taken the Niagram test um, I'm an achiever, So you bringing that up and then asking us about that, and my achievement came from well, it came from validation through baseball, like through performance. Achieving A lot of that is rooted in getting validation through my through my dad, through performance, but then being an athlete and everything. So performance based and statistical based and how that just was. I was so rooted in caring what other people think, and if I do this, I will have approval. But um, and then you bringing up for comedians saying that I get healthy, I'll lose my edge. So it's basically this admired self. It's the false self or like you mentioned, the ego, and at some point like we have to break free from that, right, it's it's not the essence of who we truly are. And so achievers can achieve a lot of things, but it's not it's not really us showing up as the true version of ourselves. And there's an author, Richard Roher, who talks about we only get a couple opportunities in our lives to break through, break free from this admired self or this ego, and a lot of this is it's in the work. It's in the work that you've dove in into, Darren's dove into, and I think that's where we truly find our freedom is breaking free from that. Yeah, I agree with you, And then another part of me is like, well easy for us to say yeah, you know, meaning we've all made money. It's like drug addicts that go don't be like me. You know. It's like we did a schedule Spelchia one time where it was like the Tyrone Bighams, the crackhead who was like teaching the kids and he's talking about his glory basically his glory days are doing drugs, and the kids are like, this sounds wonderful. So it's like we're all going like, you don't want these millions, you know, like this isn't the true me, So there isn't There is something to achieving, um, And if you can achieve with some level of integrity or achieve with at some level of your your person, your true self intact, that would be ideal. I don't know. I've actually been doing a joke recently about like athletes and mental health, and I'm like, I want mental health for everybody, but not athletes, um, because Michael Jordan's not the healthiest guy I've ever seen emotionally, but okay, pretty good at basketball, you know what I mean. So it's like it's that's kind of my I'm I'm a bit I'm of two minds. I'll say that, like I think we're right and I think I have to. I can't knock that my former hustle, so to speak, you know what I mean, Like, I can't exactly be like because because because then you might maybe you wouldn't be here if you weren't worried about being black and up I'm worried about performing or you know what I mean. Like and again it's a contradiction. Again, I don't there's no like neat conclusion. There's nothing like and this you should be this amount of athlete and this amount of crazy and this amount of dog. You saw that video of the guy the other night crying, the guy from Detroit who was crying, and he's like, we got dogs. He's crying, and then he's like, but y'all be talking about Detroit and all that, like the guy who makes it total switch and it's like you thing of like and maybe they're both valuable, you know, like maybe you can cry about your grandfather and then say we got a lot of dogs over here. You know, I don't know that. I don't, but I don't think that you would. It's like you've got you've got how long, Donnie, how long did you play? You play in the majors for a while now I have played all up to my senior year in college and Arizona State got it um and what do you what have you done? What's your what? How did you get it? As an adult? How did you get the juice? So I got the juice from the pain, definitely, because I got addicted to pain pills from the I had a massive surgery on my left knee. It was the fifth surgery on my knee. It was a traumatic cadaver transplant, got prescribed as purcas, had a week for a month straight, got cut off cold turkey, and that really sent me down this long road of just destructive living in addiction until my life got so bad years later I ended up in rehab, And in rehab, it was getting really curious, like what the fuck happened to my life, going from a baseball player star to a drug addict. And when I took ownership, it was I didn't want to feel the emotional pain of the loss of my identity, my purpose, the love of my life, the only thing I ever knew because I got all my validation through baseball. So when that stripped of you, it completely destroyed me. And so it's all through the pain. And when I started to share my story on a way smaller platform than where Darren shared his story. That's when everything changed for me. So I I thank the pain and I think that doctor who hacked up my knee and gave me all those painkillers, because it's the reason us through you're talking here today. It's so fucking cool, and you talked about it earlier about easy for us to say because we've achieved things. But that's kind of why Darren and I wanted to start this this podcast, is because they think people put athletes celebrities on pedestals as if they don't have shit, and so someone like you to come on and speak so openly about your stuff like this is what it's all about. And truly, I think Darren and I have talked about this. This is what sets us free and gives us a purpose beyond anything that we could achieve through you know, sports, performance, celebrity all of that stuff. Yeah. I mean, I'm doing a podcast now too, based on the new Netflix called Blocks, where I'm having people come on and talk about their blocks, like the things that make them feel crazy or deficient in some way. And like Letterman, David Letterman came on the first episode and he spilled the beans on himself like he was you know, he stayed if he had a bad show, he would stay. He wouldn't leave the studio until the sun went down. And I was like, Dave, that's like nine at nine and he's like no, I'm talking about ten thirty eleven, and this is like twenty five years into doing the show, you know. So it's it all. We are all um more vulnerable, and I think it's a long We've got a long way to go. I'm glad we've started. I'm talking more about male vulnerability. It's like Darren, I'm sure you see all the guys like I don't know what you'd be on that ship, on that podcast what like, you know, I'm sure they're all like the changes when I come around and start having conversations, that's for sure. Yeah. Um so yeah, there's like it's like Charlemagne the DJ, the radio host said he went to therapy because I talked about it, which is insane, you know what I mean, Like he heard me talk about it, was like, well he can do it. I can do it. So it's like a slow it's a kind of slow chain reaction. I think of making it more acceptable for for us to have. I mean, I would say the only male emotions are boredom and anger. Um, We're always like sucks, s fucking sucks, and I'm bored um. So so yeah, like expanding the definitions and and and I'm sure are you in a twelve step program that I or have you worked for? Yeah, I mean I'm I've been in twelve step AA and A. I have what I like to call a sobriety two point oh these days that um includes plant medicine. UM. I feel like that set me on a completely, um, a whole other level of sobriety, including that we talk about that, talk about here on that on here. Yeah, hell yeah, which plants would have you dealing with? So a year ago, so nine years sober with nothing in my system. I did my first psilocybin journey almost exactly a year ago here in North County, San Diego, and since then I've done I was five five Graham's hero dose blindfolded. It was like one of the most transformational not easy. The first hour was extremely difficult because I wasn't surrendering to the medicine and my ego was doing everything to fight it, and it was terrifying and hard, and then once I surrendered some beautiful grief and it was quite an amazing journey, not always easy, but a lot of freedom in it. And then since then I've done two. I've done a couple of combo ceremonies. One was actually Joshua Tree was combo Bufo, mushrooms, all an immersion of all the same day, which was like completely life changing. And say, wow, that sounds well, people say that sounds intense, but really combo wasn't tense because it's physical. But the other two Buffo, my first experience was the most gentle, loving, heart opening experience I ever had. And then that night it was just the mushrooms was really like an integration and a reflection of what happened. How many grahams did you do? How many grams and mushrooms did you do? The second time it was like it was like two grams or yeah, two grams. Yeah, So it's changed everything. It's changed the way I see the world. Go ahead, Yeah, what I want to hear it? Keep talking? No, I just said it just completely. It busted my heart wide open. When I did the first Buffo ceremony, I started verbalizing out loud in the ceremony. I'm safe. I'm safe because I went there to the residence of the God of my own understanding. I didn't see anything, see a face, but I felt God or spirit and I felt so safe that I started saying it out loud. And then it just made me realize my whole life, everything I've ever done was to feel safe, all the achieving the validation and caring what other people think. So to drop into that and actually start saying that and feel that, how could I ever come back the same, all that little shit, the little things that used to matter and carrying what other people think. Once you like break through, break free of the limitations of the mind and experience that you really can't come back the same. And so it was completely life changing and the most heart opening experience I've ever had in my life. Yeah, I had, I did, Darren. Have you done any of this? I've done kenning me with my therapist twice, and I did a Buffo journey with guests of the show don and my man Donnie was there as well. How did you like Buffo? Buffo was a journey for me. I remember they when I can win coming out of it, They said that there was a moment early on whereas like you could see I was kind of fighting it, and then I sat up and I was like shaking my head back and forth, like like like my life was depending on it, as it was put word for word. But then from there, you know, I kind of soothed back in. But there were these these parts in there to where it was just like it ended up being like a confirmation of my journey, because there were parts where I literally felt like I was beneath like broken glass, like shards of glass, and like I couldn't move, and it was almost like it felt like a lot of the anxiety I felt most of my life of like taking one wrong step or making one mistake is gonna be the death of me. Where it really just in that journey it taught me to relax amidst that glass and at some point it'll all start to start to fade if I let it, because really like it's me holding onto it, me keeping myself close to it, and me hurting myself by not relaxing and allowing it to happen. And then there were other moments where it was I saw like the grooves of my brain and seeing like color color go into it because you know, my whole life there there's been no self affirmation practice. There's been no real like self esteem and confidence in just me, like you know, verbalizing the way that I feel and building myself up that that's never really been a thing. So from there, you know, I went into it with a affirmation of I am protected, I am powerful, I am peace, And it was almost like it was confirmation of that mantra weaving into my brain and it's something that coming out of that, it's allowed me to take the strides like I was saying about not having to impress, not having to achieve or prove to somebody else that I'm worthy, and so it's just continuing to build in that journey. I don't feel like everything is fixed from it, but I feel like it's a confirmation that I'm on the right path with the spiritual work that I'm trying to do. Great. On my Buffo experience, I lost my fucking mind. I uh, my Buffa was not well. The experience was. The experience was I had always sounded too severe to me Buffo and then and then I did it, and I was like, yep, I was right too severe for me and my experience was, you know, I went to what Michael Pollen, the writer referred to who did Buffo. We referred to it as going to before the Big Bang. That's where I went, and it was wild. It was wild. The worst part was I had a thing. I smoked it. I don't know about you guys. I had a thing called a reactivation where like a week later I started drifting back into it. Now I'm like in New York doing the show the new Netflix blocks now streaming, doing that show, and like I'm somewhere between alive and in that other world of like eternal light. And I was kind of like that for two days and it was so disorienting. I thought I may have to kill myself because this is two disorienting. And I got a little bit better every day. But it took I'm not kidding, like five or six months, Okay. So yeah, So I say that to say, like Buffo, this is for anyone. You can have all kinds of experiences. The punchline to the story is that after the six months, I'm a better version of myself than I've ever been. But the process of getting there was the worst thing I'll ever experience. Like I without a doubt like worse than death, like death will be. People were like that sounds terrifying. I was like, I would have paid money for terrifying, like I wished. I was terrified. I was so far past terrified. But it changed my body and it changed my brain. When I say it changed my body, like yeah, I got a six pack now, No, it changed my body in that in that I just metabolize experiences different. I can fall in love easily, like I'm funnier, less depressed, no depression, no anxiety like but like the process was. I mean, I would have killed myself. I had the thought during it, I wouldn't wish this on Adolf Hitler. It was. I was so far gone. I was literally between alive and dead or what we experience is what I leave. I didn't kill myself because I thought, I'm just gonna be going into more of this, so I'm not going to kill myself because I couldn't. I was like, I don't want this is awful. I don't want to go into it headlong. So so I got a lot out of it. But it was, it was, it was wild. I've also done a good amount of Ayahuaska, and that's always been. That's been a little crazy, but always beautiful. And I went from being an atheist to a believer in a spirit so huge, you know, but from them, from the medicine of Iowa, from thee I went. I went literally, I think my third eye a journey. I was like, oh, I'm in the President of God right now. Okay. I was an atheist. I was like, okay, I'm in the President God fair enough. Like you, I just needed to see, I just needed to feel it. It was like going to church. I grew up athlete, so church was just like it wasn't what they whatever it was supposed to do, it would never did you know, it never did like deliver. And this Aahuascas the first spiritual experience I had that delivered completely. You said, Poufo made you a better person, a better version of yourself in the in that six month process of working through all that shit, what was like, what was the process or what was some of the workers? That's the thing. There was no because somebody was saying you should write about it, and I was like, it's not even it's the problem is it was like an on and off switch. It was it was It wasn't like in in that time, I learned it was my body was one way and then it was another way. It was like some poof. I mean the poof took six months, but like it was, it was like before after with no process to speak of other than just being less disoriented. Over time just got like it went from I was like six I believe like mine was like more than a year ago. It was like November first is when I inhaled. November seventh, I had the reactivation, and I'd say this year probably June July I finally was like completely myself. But I was on a plane that got turbulence, and my first thought was what am I not? Where am I not? Who am I? What am I? Like? Well? Species shit like understanding COMPERI I mean thirty five trillion feet. I couldn't watch Apple screensaver Apple TV screensavers like those real crisp like mountains in nature. I was like, nah, I can't look at it. It was just too like nah. I it was like I couldn't look at it because I knew how or I believed I know whatever. I believed. When people go that mountains five hundred years old and that crazy and you're like, yeah, that's crazy, but meanwhile, nothing happens. I understood how old mountains were and how old the ocean is and how deep it like, and it's you're not supposed to think about it. You're not we're not supposed to comprehend it. We have these blinders on that keep us like just for comprehension. And then this was like and it was way too much. Anyhow do you remember what you're you may do it or maybe you remember do you remember what your initial intention was like leading up to it, or what the intention you set was prior to You know what's funny is I don't really remember the intention. I'm always looking for more joy and maybe I got it, But again it was one of these things that like be careful what you wish for because they don't say how you're gonna get it, you know what I mean, Like you're gonna get it, you don't know what the process is going to be in this case. In this case, it was like, oh, yeah, okay, joy, cool, let's run the joy program. But I didn't know what it was and then I experienced it and I was like, oh, this is way too much for me to bear, Like way too much, but I got it. But I was at the absolute edge of my own comprehension. So yeah, back well, I want to backtrack a little bit too. Before you went on these journeys of healing and trying to find answers and trying to find yourself, was there like a particular low point that may have driven you to want to seek these things out or seek a healing journey. Not I can't say that there was there was no bottom. It was just it was just like I was just kind of not always at a bottom. I was just kind of like just never experienced any joy, Like would do all the things and do stuff and do this and stand up and directing friends and all this stuff. But I just was like, Okay, this is cool. I wasn't like completely disaffected, but I was never overjoyed, you know, or even enjoyed. So I'm always looking for uh, you know. I had the thought recently that I'm like, um, I'm like a Karen, but for my emotional state where I'm like, nah, this can't be a sent it back, we gotta I want let me speak to the manager. What do you got I'm not gonna be like this. And then they're like we have zoloft. Don't give it to me, Give me zola. And then it takes zol off for a couple of years, and I'm like, nah, not quite right. Let me what else you got? And then it's like, well you get microdoess Okay, we'll try microdoes made me spacey late in the day. Didn't love it all right? What else you got? And then somebody sent me an article about um ayahuasca and I was like, okay, I'll do this. And it was so it was more about not accepting my uh sort of default state, which I think a lot of people do. People just accept like this is what I'm like. It's like you don't have to be anyone what you know, Like you can and be more than what you've been, you know. And in some ways I feel like my purpose if I whatever. Sometimes you know how you go like, that's not my purpose. Maybe this is my purpose. You get like a new purpose every couple of months. Sometimes I think my purpose was to or one of my purposes is to have enough resources to be able to explore a bunch of different things and talk about them, you know, talk about on a big platform where millions of people can hear me and I can good, bad and ugly. I can talk about my emotional experience and and share my vulnerability and without shame and have people hear it. And you know, I don't know if you guys get this, but I've talked about you know, this thing called TMS, which is another modality of antidepression keith um and uh and I had someone technic. I get DMS almost every day about like when I didn't know about it until you talked about on the Daily Show five years ago. And because of you, literally I got like you saved my life two days ago, three days ago. Like I get them not every day but almost every day. Um. So not like that's my purpose, is like I'm saving lives every other day, um, but it is. You know, we're in a nice We're we're in a lucky position as as it pertains to that for sure. I mean I saw a purpose jump off the screen the moment I first saw your stand up special, just the way that you weave comedy and just share vulnerability together. Because that's how I mean whenever thing weren't going great in my life, I could always like find a way to make a joke about it or find a way to like laugh, So I didn't cry or I didn't like completely crumble on the inside. So I just want to say, like I see purpose, Like I don't even really like with most people, like it's like okay, like I see what they're about. But it's like with you, which is like clear cut, Like I have not seen anybody go about sharing their message and engaging the world in the way that you have. And with that, um, you talked about how you felt like you were hiding and you always were like dying to hide, and yeah, what was the process like of of confronting that feeling, confronting that emotion and trying to find some kind of progress or freedom from that. Well that's when when you guys want to do the podcast. I assumed it was like about some sort of comeback, right and and so I assumed you meant like I mean, I was, you know, on a comedy team with Dave Chappelle, so um and uh and and and then it ended abruptly at the tight of the height of the partnership, you know. So I was sort of you know, the space shuttle exploded, and I was I was like fluttering down to Earth, you know, And I had to figure out a way to make a have a life independent of another person, and and it like wasn't easy, and it took me a long time. I mean I started doing stand up pretty he left in O. Five and then I started in No. Seven, so I had done a little bit before that, but so it was just hard. It was hard to figure out because there was a lot of people who thought I was, like, hey, would just discount me and go me. It's Dave's plus one, Dave's hanger on. No one never goes so that guy's the greatest comedian of all time or up there, and he always wants to write with that guy. No one ever goes. He must done. Other guy must be good. They're just going, no, uh, you suck and he's great. And it's like that's some own partnership shit. So um, like people only like one of you to be good. Everyone's always trying to figure out, like who's the weak linkum, because they don't want both of you to They don't have to respect two people. So so I had to figure out a way to develop my own voice and to figure out how to be a comedian. And that took I don't know that against six months three months was came out. Uh. I started probably eight years into stand up, so I'd done a Comedy Central special before that. That's funny, um, but I had to figure out how to do it. I had to figure out like step one, like how to be on stage, how to perform, how to project my voice, how not to get rattled, how to you know, Like it's a different job. It's like going from coaching to playing, you know. And it's easy to be. You know, a lot of what I was doing on schpellship was writing and directing and stuff. It wasn't like night and day. But that's the challenge that no one ever says, like that must have been hard to be Dave Chappelle's partner to being a comedian, Like he is like, yeah, it was fucking pretty hard, thanks for asking. So so figuring out how to do that and the embarrassment of it, like the embarrassment and the vulnerability of it and not. You know, the thing about being in a partnership is you can hide in a in a way that um not even like consciously. It's just easier. It's just easier when you've got when you've got two people lifting the bucket. It's just easier so to say nothing of writing a thing and then he says it it's like fucking gonna come out correctly. Um. So so that was the that was the hard part, and like I said, the embarrassment of going from uh, you know, kings of the school to just a student and trying to become a king of the school on my own with a bit of resentment from people because they somehow assumed that I was using I'd done the show to catapult into and stand out or just like I just like writing and directing the show, like I like doing that. I would have been happy doing that. So so I guess I the hardest part was was the like the doing it was hard, and the driving around to MC an hour each way and all that stuff, just like the dumb, embarrassing grunt work. But it was the resentment that always got me. Is like so unfair and so um untrue to me. You know what, do you feel like you learned most about yourself and that whole process. Um that. I think one of the things I learned is that I'm durable. I always knew that, but durability is ability is a you know, people like people like boots for that reason is a durable um. But you know, people like getting a Louis Baton bag part of it because it's lifetime warranty. And I would say I have a lifetime warranty on myself, like I got it, Like I'll figure it out, you know what I mean, Like I will. I'm good at I'm good at pattern recognition, So if you show me the pattern enough, I'll figure it out and I can go that way. Like even doing three mics the way I did it was like I'd done regular stand up specials and people didn't care. So I was like, well, I'm just not going to do another one. I'm not going to do that again. I'm not going to waste my time and their time on a thing that that forty other people do better than me. So let me do a thing that only I can do, which is I'm a good writer in more than comedy. I can write whatever the fucking middle mic is. So I mean, the middle mic is Donnie. The middle mic is an AA share if we're being honest, because there's no more arresting. I'm the best monologues or performances I've ever seen are inaa in Alan On meetings, so um so like it's basically that, and and then within that, I mean, it was like recognizing not even a need, it was recognizing a deficit kind of in myself, which is like I'm not as good at stand up as like Rock or Dave or Toash or Jim Jefferies or Bill Burr, like I could name John Mullaney like fucking out, like I can name a lot of people that I think are better than me. But I can take other things. I can take, I can direct, I can produce, I can write, I can do all these things and make a special that's as impactful as theirs, you know. So that was more the that was the thing. And the funny thing was that I that speaks to the thing I said earlier, which is like approval works as approval feels good, and approval can heal some shit I'm afraid to say, you know, like I was looking for adrenaline and what did I say, achievement an adrenaline and ego. Yeah, And I don't know if three mics is really the or the the like the success or the acceptance or the whatever the praise is ego so much as like fulfillment, you know, it was fulfilling. I'm sorry to say the response was fulfilling. It did feel really good in a way that like my overall self esteem stores went up a little. It's you know what I mean, it's not supposed to We're supposed to be like, no, that's not but we went up. It went up overall, Like I feel, I felt a little better every day after than I did before. You know, um, and now I can, I can maybe i'd like it again'st not ego, not narcissism, but but it's possible and and it's so it's possible. It isn't and we can just focus on the being in purpose part of it, which is also true. I'm glad. I'm glad there because which part the ego part um just the part of the approval. Actually, because work that I do with my sponsor a lot, he's always on my head about because I go to these emotional extremes. Right. He paints this picture of a scale one to ten, and for me growing up, it's like really lacking self esteem. There's like, okay, ten is like absolute egomania, but by by not wanting to be at ten, I go all the way to one, to where there's like literally like there's no confidence, there's no there's no path for humility because I don't even see the good that I bring to the table. There's no balance there. So as far as like approval, as far as yeah, and it's like as far as approval respect things in society, like as human beings, like we naturally want to feel those things, We naturally seek these things. But it's about seeking it imbalance. So it's not I need everyone's approval in the world. It's not, um fuck everybody's approval. I don't need shit. Like it's finding that my sponsor always says, be a five, find the five in the middle to where it's in purpose. People approve of what I'm doing, and it confirms to me that I'm on the right path and as opposed to go into these extremes all the time, to have me on these fucking wild ass roller coasters, Yeah, and yeah, I know people that do that, Like I got a buddy right now, it's got to really My friend and Anderstantino released to Netflix special today. I'm sure it's great. I haven't seen the final but like the hour was great and uh and he was and he wants to look at his Instagram comments and he doesn't want to, you know what I mean. I'm like, dude, it's we only release like five of these in our lives. Like enjoy it instead of like, because I know people that are very like m I don't want to get to Chris Rock honestly will not enjoy shit. And and I'm like, dude, you're great, and he's like ah, and it's like just fucking be acknowledge it. Enjoy it, enjoy it, you know, like my bunny, I'm like, there's only a one hundred people on earth that have had Netflix specials. It's a rare thing. There's only so many guys who playing the NVL, so like there's there's I'm not saying you got to be like mean mugging people and being like holding your chain up and shit, you just you just for yourself. You can enjoy it, you know. Facts Um, Darren, were you on Real Sports? Yeah? I was, Uh it was it like a few months ago, I believe, Yeah, all right, good, it's funny. Life's a while because I was like, I thought it was you and then I forgot it was you because I've watched it, and I watched all of them but but it's funny how how how you see somebody like I fuck with that dude and then they then they damn you. Um life like that sometimes but um but yeah you're doing you're like trying to do shit. Yeah again, this is not none of the ship's uh easy. And there's also not a lot. I was talking to Buddy on my podcast yesterday, my friend Sebastian Maniscalco's great comedian and you know Netflix specially whatever, and he was saying, like, I don't know about money, like I'd never been rich like this, and I'm probably gonna cut it out because it's so not relatable. But it's like it's no one. There's so many of these things where we get we're very fortunate and it's got its own pitfalls that no one will talk about, you know what I mean, Like it just and and it's hard to uh no, like you can't have that five conversation with many people, you know what I mean, Like meaning like people, Oh is it hard being? Is it hardy in the NFL? Is a hardy fayment? Oh boo hoo. It's like it's it's not unchallenging, you know what I mean, Like, um, so so yeah, none of the ships. I hear a lot of a lot of awareness and just your words and your intentions on what you're doing and the content and what you're putting out there. What are your practices these days? How do you um keep and cultivate that awareness, like daily practices, morning routines, rituals, Like what does that look like for you? Well, again, this is that that UM DMT thing. There's like it's almost like pre me and post me, the aiahuasca and DMT um. Lately, when I was in Thailand last week, like I was, it was too much city. It was too much chaos and cars and smid debris and just like trash, and I was like, I need nature. I don't even fuck with nature. I don't really like nature like that, but I'm starting to realize like, oh, I need some nature in my life. Like, and I've wanted to go to sleep earlier, which I've never wanted before. I'm gonna set up an altar with like fucking goofy ass crystals and shit on it. Um like like I'm I'm a shame on me. I mean I'm wearing a I'm wearing an ayahuasca bracelet I've had this thing on for two years. Where's that? Where are you? I wanted a bracelet there it is? Yes, yeah, yeah, sure, wis yeah yeah yeah, Shapibo tribe, et cetera, et cetera. So, um, I'm not. I mean, I've been working with clairvoyant dude, I'm a I'm embarrassed the amount of stuff I do now. But but I I went from believing nothing to believing anything. Or I'm like, all right, crystals, yes, anklets of course. Uh, mirrors to do a spell? Absolutely? Um. Have I had mirrors in my back door window for the last thirty days? Yes, of course I have two mirrors because I had to get a spell off of me. Guys, you get it, a white witch from England me and we did a zoom and we did we gotta spell off me. Look, I could go on and on. You guys know that, but I just don't have any embarrassments. Like I just don't care. I don't care, Like what do you? I don't I've been asking on the podcast, like do you pray to people? I didn't believe in God two years ago? So like, I'm not, Uh, I'm tied to any version of myself that it goes to that Karen thing Of'm like, no, run this, send it back, send it back, like I'm not tied to I don't if I if I'm if I'm like happier or not doing comedy. I'm not doing comedy anymore. I don't care like or whatever. The thing is what I love Darren in your field, like when guys retire suddenly nothing makes me happier. Facts, straight up, straight up, straight up. There's a dude on our team, um uh name Blake Martinez. He sold a Pokemon card. I think we was in Jacksonville. He sold a Pokemon card for like one point two million dollars and bro retired like two days later when we got back from the road trip. I'm not I'm not with this no more. And I was like, yeah, respect what yeah yep. Um so like I'm not I'm again, I'm not for like make rash decisions. I'm I'm saying I like when people are are not held down by their former identity. You know, wow, straight up it's just a trap. A lot of like if you don't have to do anything, like you don't have to do any of this shit, you you have to live inside. Probably you need running whatever, whatever, But like, did you ever think you'd deal with the more many homeless people there? Nah? I never thought i'd be doing yeah. I'm doing yeah, And you're like, Okay, I guess this is what I do now. It's the same you. It's a better version of you, but it's the same core. You know. I feel like the word that keeps coming up for me is freedom, just hearing you talk like true freedom, and I think that's where if I think about sobriety as the first step to that freedom. Achieving a freedom I never knew as possible, working through the twelve steps and working through my shit and then sobriety two point zero with the plant medicines and breaking through all those other limitations is freedom. And I hear that in your words, where like to not give a fuck anymore about what anybody else thinks and be open to the magic and mystery of life and not be tied to these old beliefs that crystals are weird or woo woo. It's like all such broken down old belief systems. But just as you are explaining everything on what you're doing now and how you know three men talking on a podcast, for me, you know, ten years ago would be like, this isn't the shit I would ever talk about. I wouldn't talk about the loving ourselves first. It was like, no, push through the pain, don't show emotion, never let them see you sweat. So it's always an honor. And this is why Darren and I started this podcast was to like, you know, bring people on who from the world's perspective might look like they have all their share and have this amazing life, but when they actually get to share their ship like you're doing. This is like when when you're talking about purpose, where I can just take a step back and go fuck, yes, like this is exactly why we wanted to do this. So thank you for sharing everything. It's beautiful man. Yeah, and again, I don't you know, like I said, maybe my purpose is to do this stuff. Maybe maybe it isn't. Maybe it's maybe maybe it's like it's all a bridge to a different thing, you know, like it's you try this, you know, and you try like I'm yeah, I'm oh, yes, a better, like a better it's an update. I mean, didn't you guys feel or maybe you did or didn't, But I've I've had the experience on plants where it's you're getting a new uh operating system. And my my issue was I was still alive, where it was like, hey, you know they put the computers to sleep for this, where I was like going places and look and living and then like and it's like, yo, can we stop? Can we choose? Can we do this when I'm asleep? Um? But uh but but yeah, it's like it's not getting tied to who you are and and actually uh, distilling yourself down to what you really are, who you want to do you like, it's one of the hardest things in the world. What do I like? What am I? What do I actually like? Well, like I've realized reasonably like I don't like more than one or two people in a conversation. Anything else is just disorganized and it just takes a lot Like I'm a happy People are over using the word introvert an extrovert now because there is a lot of truth to it, Like I'm kind of an introvert. And I was wondering, like, why do I not ever want to go to a party? Am I just like a missing thrope? No, I just don't doesn't move, It doesn't work for me. So just figuring out what doesn't work for you and in the new one, the blocks one. Uh, I'm I'm still grappling with all of the choices I've made in life, like not having kids and not drinking and not being married and and sort of the disapproval of people and figuring out how to accept myself despite you know, all the ways and people disapprove. And that's hard. But it's a thing that I've gotten way better at um over time, just because you. It's the one of the only, not the only good thing about aging is you just like you don't like you can heal quicker. Your emotional wounds heal like a young person's cut um. Like I my emotional wounds heal like an seventeen year old elbow. Now my elbows can't heal the shit, but but my emotional wounds are like like you know, you it used to be days and now it's like minutes or hours to recover from it, like an emotionally hard thing spinning out like you mentioned it, Darren, No doubt, man, Yeah, it just takes. It just takes a long time. And and the d MT the BUFFO help really help with that, I think because you're durable. You probably had to go through that six month experience, the whole durability thing. They would say, the medicine will reveal what it's supposed to, but um, six months, that's wild and that reactivation is and Donnie is I already knew I was durable. It's like medicine. So yeah. So so that was the hard part was like I knew what was durable. Tell me something I don't know. I had another experience like that on ayahuasca where it was like sort of a I was it like my mind it's called dissolution where my I would have a thought, I would think like the word what, and my brain would go huh, and it was like yo and I and I thought I was going to be a drug casualty, Like I'm gonna be like a drug casualty, Like oh you hear about that guy Neil Brenni Hey did Awaska never came back? Then? I was thrust to outer space and the universe was killed, meaning babies, saturn, dogs, black holes, nebula and I'm just there by myself floating. And it was that one was another like oh, so you don't believe in God? Are you? So you're an atheist. Huh, here's the logical conclusion of that. Just it just ends and uh and in my head, I'm like, no, I'm not that anymore. We don't want to know. Just let's go. We don't need you, don't got to do all this. So so yeah, oh man, I mean, if I learned anything today is that there's no right or wrong process for anybody in their life, in their story. Um, however you come to the place that you're supposed to be, is how you come to that place, whether it's practices or not, whether you're in nature or not, whether you pray all the time or not. Like the story that is meant for you is it for you? Man? And the way that you go about it, the way you go about your purpose, the way you just go about you know, continuing to go to from moment to moment, trying to be the best version of yourself, captivating me from the moment I saw you first on Netflix and even still today having this conversation which you man, you impacted me today. So I just want to say thank you, great man. I mean, there's a lot of good shit in the new one too, So Phil, haven't that one as well? And uh, yeah, It was nice talking to you guys. It was I like talking. This is kind of the only when people are like, is that too deep? I'm like, I don't need to know about what number? Are you give a shit? Is it fun? What's the locker room? Like? You'll be all right? Yeah, I'm good on that. Yeah, exactly the locker room. I gave Blake Griffin a joke one time. The locker room is a bathroom with a carpet. Is what the locker room? It's fucking disgusting other than carpet. All right, Donna, great to major brother. Thank you man, Thanks for showing up. Thanks for showing up the way you do. I'm carrying the message the way you do. Man, It's a beautiful thing. I appreciate your time. My pleasure was well, Wow, what's up? Comeback stories, family, it's Donnie dropping in here. So did you know that Darren and E's relationships started by me being his personal development, mindfulness and mindset coach. I want to let you know about both my one on one coaching program, The Shift and my group Mastermind Elevate your Purpose. These coaching programs are specifically designed for people who are ready to take the next step in their purpose and level up their career, personal finances, and have more connected, deep and meaningful relationships. My gift and part of my purpose is to help others take that next step and leveling up their lives so that they can have a greater impact on the lives of others, create success that's sustainable, evolves and grows, and help build a legacy that will outlive your life. If this is calling you, just go to Donnie Starkins dot com and apply for either one of my programs.