Rich Paul's Comeback Story

00:00:11 Speaker 1: Welcome back everyone to another episode of Comeback Stories. I'm here with Donnie, who got a special guest here today, a man that I've been able to admire from afar the work that he's done, and now get to have former relationship with him being a part of the Clutch Sports family. We got my man, the one and only Rich Paul in the building today. What's up Rich? What's up Darren? How's it going? Thanks for having me guys, Yes, sir, man, appreciate you for creating a time and you know, to tell your story, we got to start from the beginning. So tell us what it was like growing up for you. Paint the picture of where you grew up and what it was like in that time. Man. You know, it's it's a lot to unpack. But obviously grew up on the east side of Cleveland, Ohio, the Glenville area. You know, my childhood was it was fun, to be honest with you, because we didn't know what we didn't know, right, and so the lack there of things. My parents did a pretty good job of, number one, making sure we at least had a meal, you know, and it didn't seem like we didn't have much. You know, but as I got older, I learned to realize that, damn, we didn't really have much. I think ultimately, you know, my environment that I was in was a rough one. The Glenville area of Cleveland is one of the roughest areas for sure, along with many others. But it was one of those situations in which you just adapt, you know, you adapt. And we lived literally right above my dad's store, which sat on a very busy corner, and not busy based upon car traffic, only just busy. You know. Everything was happening, and at a young age, you thought you saw things that you probably shouldn't have seen. You've heard things that you definitely shouldn't have heard, and so you had to learn how to adapt really quickly. And it was almost kind of I felt like, you know, if you watched the movie Bronxe Telle, I felt kind of like Collogial a little bit in terms of My dad used to always tell me you don't know nothing, you didn't see anything, and that was how we grew up. And when you think about that, that's tough, you know, to have to learn that. It's one thing to learn your you know, your multiplication and division. It's nothing to learn. You don't know nothing, you don't see anything, and so we lived by that and I continue to evolve. And I think where it really got extremely tough on me was when my mom had her struggles and you know, not having that motherly love in the house every day, every night, waking up and not really knowing where she would be or whatnot. That's a very scary thing. And even with that, I had to learn to adapt as well. And so looking back on it, those were the times that was kind of shaping and molding me. But with all that juggling, all of that I still carried throughout my dignity and integrity and my dad and my mom when she was able to come around. Still respect was still the foundation for me as a kid. I was never one of those kids that was disrespectful to my elders or anything like that, and definitely wasn't disrespectful to my parents. And so what it taught me was regardless what someone had or didn't have, what their status was or wasn't, you have to respect them. And I'm glad that I was raised that way. It did a lot for you. I love, I love your perspective on just you know, I've had a lot of teammates in that space out of you know, grown up an environment similar to yours, and they always say like we didn't know at the time, like at some point we were told. And just I think that shapes the power of perspective in a situation. And I hear you talking about adapting to things that you hear and things that you see. Was there anything that was painful to adapt to? Was there a certain trauma or a certain event or a loss of someone that really hurts you and it affected the way that you approached life going forward from there? Yeah, I mean, look, man, that was pain throughout, you know. And then Cleveland you get four seasons and so you got those cold winter nights and your mind. You know, one thing about the mind is so powerful, and you envision things good or bad. And there were plenty of nights to where you know, I had this envisioning of things had happening that were traumatizing for me. And you know, watching the news every morning was a very scary thing because you were embracing that that phone call UM and then hearing you know, obviously the gunshots he AMBI lance late seeing things UM right in front of my eyes, I was part of whether it was a shootout, a stabbing, a fight, multiple fights, you know, domestic disputes and things like that. And I think the most important thing was watching the families around me be decimated. You know, the crack error was at at his height then and watching the families be decimated. Watching you know, one of the things that people don't understand is being able to have a front row seat of when that shift between mother and son changes, right, and you go from respecting your mom. And I'm not talking about me, I'm talking about what I saw my peers do respecting your mom to not necessarily disrespecting your mom, but more so your mom disrespecting herself, which then causes you to not long no longer act as a son and man. That's that was just a tough thing for me, because I respected everybody's mom and to hear those arguments and those fights, and and it's based upon something that I really don't have a ton of value, and a lot of times it was currency, right and a very very small amount of money, And that was just a that was devastating for me because I grew up on a great street. I grew up on the street where we all the kids hung out. We played games, we made up games, you know, the family set out on the front porch, and you know, you couldn't tell me I wasn't in the the NFL. I was definitely in the NFL for sure. I saw Eric Metcalf one day just passed. We were in Vegas together twice. Actually saw him at the NFL draft as well, and I always talked to him about the story where I spray painted my my shoes orange because he did that when he played for the Browns. And man, we used to have battles. We used to make these um we used to mirror the wrestling belts. We would make him out of cardboard boxes and put a lunar foil and we created what was the football belts. And we would have actually have real battles one on one, two on two our street versus another street for the belt. So it was great. And then obviously football, I boxed, I did taekwondo for the team Type, I did gymnastics for the team Titans. So I was a very active child, me and my brother as well, and we were into everything. But that there was a balance that you had to have and so you went to that happy place, which was all those activities, but man, it was it was a lot of rough nights. But I say this, you know, it definitely shaped me though. It's what allows me to honestly stay extremely grounded today. It what allows me to understand that you could be sitting on the highest of highs of mountaintops, which I equate to someone having a great job and then hitting rock bottom. And so I seen it. You know, I was out there with those people. I was out there with the parents of my friends, whether it was mother or father, and there was a lot of families there was no father present. And I've seen some crazy things. Man, I've seen a family. I've seen a father kill his son on Christmas. You know, as a kid, you know, I remember that vividly taking place, and so you know when you talk about today's world and all the terrible things that happens, you know, it wasn't we get so much of it because of its news cycle, and it wasn't like that back then, but it was right in front of us. And so now as a child, you have my dad really helped me understand the important decision making and I never had this give up type of mentality. I was extremely confident as a kid with nothing. My dad really stretched the value of educations and so I was never a type of kid to be in school and do avoca davi on a test, just because you know, I always challenged myself and I respected my father so much that I you know, it would be it would be the you know, the worst thing for me to come home with a bad with bad grades and things of that nature. Only only had an issue one time, and I'm great, I told that story several times. But outside of that, Um, despite having it all sort of speak, you know, I really value the things that actually needed to be valued. And then it started to get better and again, like again, like I said, my family, my dad and my mom, you know, UM made it to where although we were in the herd together and we felt and we didn't have much, you couldn't you couldn't tell that right in our mind, we had everything, and so it was this kind of richie the black richie rich type of thing where you know, it wasn't a mansion and the butler, but you know, they made us feel as if we had a lot. And I'm extremely thankful for that one thing. My mom taught us at a very early age was the importance of cleanliness and taste. Not having much don't mean you you treat things any type of way. And so I was really shaped in a proper manner, and it helped me today. I'll be honest with you to see that I sitting today, A lot of what I know today comes from that place. I love the foundation of, you know, honoring what you have and making the most of the cards that you've been dealt and learning that from your parents. Um. I know that you lost your dad in high school. I know that had to have been a painful event, but was there also maybe a fire lit within you from that experience? Yeah, I lost my dad. Actually it was in between. It was right after my senior year, like right at the beginning of what would be my college freshman year, and the struggle of it was again, this was my as friend, you know, this was somebody I admired, I looked up to. And but during the course of my life as a young man, my dad always was a very matter of fact with things that he talked about because he's he could not sugarcoat it. Because the world that we were part of then sugarcoat it right, and so he wanted to prepare us for things, and he taught us to be leaders and not followers. And you know, because as you know, getting in the wrong car, standing next to the wrong person, just going through with something just because could cause you your life, could cause you your freedom, and so and so forth. And so we learned those things very early. But you know, it did light of fire because he was always tell me, you know, one day you're gonna have to be the man, you know, And we were treated me and my brother both was treated as men of the house at a very early age. Right, we had responsibilities. We had chores. Three was at our house and then obviously we got to split up and move to my grandmothers and other grandmothers, but we had responsibilities always. But more importantly, I just didn't want to be be a failure to my dad, you know. I didn't want to be that guy that I know I was better than. And it's so easy for as a young man and to do the bare minimum, you know, but still get away with things, and when you don't have nobody to necessarily reprimand certain things where there no there's no parental supervision, you know, it's a free for all, and but still in all, I was a very astute young man, and I knew right from wrong. And as you know, even though as a kid, you're gonna they tell you don't touch that stove it's hot. Even if you don't hand the minutes, you're gonna braid across it. Whatever. So I had those moments, and luckily enough I was able to come out of them. But my environment was a blaze. It was it was, it was, it was, you know, it was a firestorm every single day, and I had to navigate my way through that. I had my bumps in the road. For sure. You had your challenges, you had to stand up to certain things and so on and so forth. But also I was a very again, I just felt like my community and really pretty much the city, because I can go anywhere in my city. I felt I did feel protected though at the same time, and although I was from rival neighborhoods, if I was in a rival neighborhood, I had a respect in the care and people protected me in a lot of ways. But I was also a stute enough and in tune to feel that vibe and that tone that comes with that right and so there's a balance there. And sports really allowed me to to have so many tentacles and meet so many people. And I think again, just always treating people with respect allowed me to navigate my way throughout the city. And I think people appreciated that even as you know, because listen, being teen is different than being thirteen, and thirteen is different than sixteen, especially in a black community. Thirteen you really sixteen, and at sixteen now you're really responsible for your actions, right, and so you know, getting to twenty one was a different dynamic. That's a milestone unfortunately, and so yeah, but you know, I couldn't be more appreciative of how I grew up. I think it allows me to understand what's really important in life, allows me not to ever get too hied too low, allows me to appreciate things because I know what it's like to be without. I've seen people go without. I've experienced going without for a short amount of time. I had some peers that didn't have hot water from ninety one hundred twenty days, you know, living in the dark, and you know, got to open up this oven because you don't have any no heat to keep the house warming. Things like that and so to come from there and to be sitting in my luxurious, luxurious every Hill's office, it's a blessing man. And it's something I don't take for granted. Despite any accolades or how much money I make, or the value of my business, or whatever the case may be, that don't make me who I am. I think that enrichness comes from who you are as a person. First, that foundation. You know, Darren, me and you, We just had a real conversation. You and I just had a real conversation. And it all goes back to principle. It really all goes back to principle. And I couldn't I can't thank my mom and dad enough for making sure that we never got out of line as pertains to that. And so I carry that with me. I carry the city of Cleaning with me everywhere I go. And my head is up high and my chest is out not from a place of arrogance, but just from a place of confidence. And I said this, I tweeted this years ago, the dens in the man's arm and showed it. He's battle tested. You know, when you played football, especially when we played Pop Warner Community League football. We called it back then you know, if you didn't have no marks on your helmet from the different team that you played, you really wasn't a party action. And so the only time you really cleaned your helmet was during homecoming because you wanted to be fresh and cleaned. After that it got back, you know, you had those marks. And so I appreciate that aspect of it because I'm definitely I definitely got a lot of dints in my armor the store. I've heard you say that quote before, and it got me thinking the first time I heard it, as as Darren and I. You know, Darren's sharing his story of addiction and recovery on a on a really big platform. I've done the same thing on a smaller platform. And that's how Darren and I have connected. But as we're watching this podcast grow and the connections that we're making, and it's all because of the dents, it's all because of the mess and it made it like humanizes Darren and myself and makes it so much more relatable. The reason that we started this podcast is because we believe that everybody has a comeback story in them. We know everybody loves a comeback story, but it's it's it's it's just fascinating that this image of perfection that you know, the world and social media puts out there, it's not even real. It's not even relatable. And I work with a lot of people and a lot of athletes and a lot of pro athletes that still have this not enough story, not good enough, you know, and it's I always say, the only story that matters is the one that we tell ourselves. So you're chasing an image of perfection that isn't even real. So it just keeps validating the not enough story that you're telling yourself. So yeah, I just hear a lot of perspective in your in your story. I'm just like taking a bunch of notes here and even how I like, it's not the event that happens, it's the meaning we attached to it. Your upbringing for many would you know, turn into like victimization and a totally different story. And the way that you've shifted your perspective, man, it's it's amazing. Yeah, it did for a lot, It did for a lot of my peers. And that's why when I go home, you know, people are so happy to see me do well. And like you talked about, you know, it's never in this industry. For me, it was never enough, you know, No matter what I did, people tried to challenge that, try to challenge your credibility and validity of things. When I first started the business, people felt like, oh, this person has to own a piece of my business because they support it. And you know what, I really appreciate all of that, right because it helps you become better, It really does. And if you spend your time focusing on what other people think all the time, then you actually lost focus at that moment, right, And so again I start to now focus on what my responsibilities are and I have a responsibility to those coming up behind me, you know, as I sit on the boards of these different companies today, I have a responsibility, right because when you talk about diversity and the important diversity, and when you look at most of the Fortune five hundred companies and you look at their leadership group, very few are black, very few are women, you know, and so very few are even someone of color. And so when I do get those opportunities, I have to come through, right because the X person like me may not get that board seat, but they may get that executive chair, right. And so I think that's the only thing that really bothered me in our business there. And obviously you've been a player. I'm being the CEO and founder and actually an agent of c I wear so many different hats, but like the support, right that that support, that alliance, that that allowing to be represented by you know, we went from a place of oh, well, if it was somebody, I would but since there is nobody, I don't. But then when it became somebody, what was the excuse then? You know, and I think that's something that we have to overcome. And obviously I can't. No agent can represent every player. But let's not see here and act like you now don't have a place that you can actually go to and be represented at a high level by someone or several people that come from where you come from. You know, look the way you look, think the way you think, listen to the same music you listen to, dressed the way you dressed. Because those were all things that people trying to drive a wedge in between and talk about why you shouldn't because this person then looked apart, or because this person had the credentials and so on and so forth. Well, now you have that, Now what's the excuse, right, and there is no excuse for what there is is there's a reluctance, and there's a reluctance becomes because we come from a place in which there can only be one king. And so now I worry about if I sign with you, then you make money alongside of me or offer me, and you live a certain way because of me, And so now I don't feel feel good about that, because we didn't. That wasn't a practice of repeated practice growing up. It was actually the opposite. It was when that person got the house painting, or the grass cut or a new car, then they thought they were better than No. All you gotta do is pull the waterholes out, powerwah down your porch and going buy a can of paint and a paint brush and repaint your porch, and your porch look brand new as well, and then you can come in and say, you know what, you really did a great job with your porch. We didn't grow up like that. And so it's all well and good when you're inside in a environment and it doesn't get outside of that. But now we're in a very big business, right, We're in a multi billion dollar ecosystem of sports and entertainment, and so now you haven't developed those practices over time. Your brain doesn't work like that. Your brain automatically goes to I can't give the information to this person that looks like me because I gotta keep that quiet because I'm either afraid of allowing them to know and helping me, or I want to showcase that I can do it on my own. Nobody does on their own right. And so when you think about you know, I hear some things, you know, it's all types of stuff that that our industry deals with, a topic of someone representing themself. Nobody represents themselves, right, And just think about it. The biggest companies in the world, Google, Amazon, Apple, Nike, New Balance, all the Hollywood agencies they have, I don't know, I don't know. I can't even count as many lawyers as they have. Why Because they built an ip that is so important, and they built the business that's so important that they you have to protect it. And the athletes should look at themselves the same exact way, Right, I want to pay you more if you representing me and it costs me more, then that means I made more and I'm protected. So whatever that costs may be, because here's the flip side to that. You're going Chanel, you're going Louis Vutton, you're going Dior, you're going Balinciaga, and you do what they call quote unquote ball out right, and these are depreciating assets. Nothing you bought is appreciating. You end up throwing it away, giving it away, or whatever the case may be. But you won't take that ball out approach on your infrastructure of your business. That couldn't be. I don't want to call anyone dumb, but it's definitely not smart. And I'm not saying that selfishly. I'm saying it in general my lawyers, right, you know, I want to have the best of the best. That's that's just what you work hard for, especially when you built something. And so I think that the more the younger, the age of both young men and women, especially of color, could start to understand how bureaucracy works, how corporate America works, the importance of infrastructure, how that works. And I think the better off our business habits could be and practices could be because we don't. We don't come from a place where people have built anything. The only thing they built is notoriety, and what happens is you start to invest in that notoriety without having the finance, without having the foundation, you're just popular. And most people grow up wanting to be pop learned they don't. They don't grow up wanting to be the other P word in position. I learned there was a time or I wanted to be popular, and then I realize, oh no, I want to be in position right, And so I think that for me, that's what's important to me. You know, I want to be able to help change those mindsets, and not just because I'm in this business. But when you think about it. They talked about, you know, athletes been billionaires and so on and so forth, and I get it, but one hundred million, a billion five. I think the more importance of that is when when they start to understand business at a very high level. And we had this conversation the other day, Darren, and so I think that whether you become a billionaire or not, that's fine, because I think that the real wealth is in your mental state anyway, that's the mind I mean, you can only spend so much money. I'm fine with that. I think the billionaires get there by having a certain drive and understanding business and understanding infrastructure and valuing team. And if someone's a billionaire, then they got a payroll of one hundred million in staff, I'm sure you know, or fifty million, whatever the case may be. So I just think that, you know, hopefully we can start to do a better job and become more insightful of those things, and hopefully it helps our industry because as you know, when we're on when I'm sitting in front of a eighteen nineteen year old and his family, and if they're coming from a recruiting meeting of three four other agencies, and in those meetings they got all the bells and whistles and the big marketing advance and all the things that they can say to them that they want to hear right now, and it's great, but then none of it comes to fruition. But they never really pay attention to it because now I got the money. So you really haven't evolved. You're still thinking the same way. You just got more money, but you haven't realized that everything that this person said they were going to do, none of it has come to fruition because none of it was really that realistic to begin with. That's why you have to know the industry so we can get into that. But you know, I'm very passionate about that, Donnie and Darren because you know, it shouldn't be as hard as it is in terms of people getting to this level and not understanding what's important. And that's why I said I made the comment in the complex, I said, the guy asked me about, you know, LJ being a billionaire, and I'm like, I'm not impressed by that. What impresses me more is his understanding of people's capabilities around him. That was impressed me more. And color don't have anything to do with that. Ken don't have anything to do with that. Your capabilities are what they are, and if your capabilities are at an elementary level, then you'll do elementary work. If they at a master's level, then you do master's work. For me, that's how I look at it. So I hear so I reflect so much on my own story when you say that, how young people need to learn you know what's most important because for me, you know, I feel like what got me in such a hole in my life was you know, I was using football and everything I did in life to be seen as you know, a man or to be seen as successful or good enough. And I wanted this platform. I wanted these people to follow me. I wanted to be seen in this regard. But you know, I didn't have the foundation and the character to hold that thing up and to support that level of success. And that's why I feel like God withheld so much from me for a while until I went through what I had to go through. And now today, you know, I feel like the success that I'm having, that continuing to grow is because of a changeing those priorities and those values to be like, okay, like nothing good is going to have, something good can happen, but how is it going to be withheld? How is it going to be a legacy that comes from it if I don't have the character the principles built up in order to sustain that thing and to hold that thing up while other people come behind me and other people come eat and things like that. So it's like that shifting of those values is something that you know, allowed my life to really be something that I wanted the whole time, instead of reaching for somebody else's approval or following first, you know, letting that come as it has and you guys are as athletes to star players. You know you're especially a professional athlete, is in such a peculiar situation because you got to remember, if you an elite professional athlete or if you just on a actor squad, at some point in your life, you was the man for multiple years. And so you digest that, right, Your ego is digesting that that plate of food that I'm the man. It's not a steak of potatoes and broccoli, it's I'm the man. I'm the man. I'm the man. I'm the man. And so you're eating that for several years. You're eating I'm the man for several years. What that does is it creates a blockage within your brain to when it really matters, because there's a fine line between amateur and pro. As an amateur, I don't have a business. I'm not being paid, but I'm being evaluated as a pro. I'm being paid. I have an opportunity to build a business. But I'm not educated. And so now I'm being evaluated on one end, I'm not educated on the other end, and I'm eating ego. So there's three es. Right. So now as it pertains to come a time in which I need to position myself. And it's just like when you when you're on a radio, right, there's like a fader and then there's a balance to make sure that the frequency is right. Well, you have to understand how to have the right frequency. Also as a human being. That's a professional athlete that's been eating ego all the time, but that needs to understand the important infrastructure people around me and their capabilities and when do I move those needles right? So sometimes you need to have that confidence that look at me, that I'm the man. That's when you play. But then in other times you need to have that shyness and that capability to do more listening than talking. That's when you and your business meetings. You get what I'm saying and then everything in between. Most guys can't do that. Every decision is made on me, and you know what that gets you? That gets you overpromising and under delivering. That gets you let me just give you this money and we'll figure it out later. That gets you, Ah, you know what, I just want to max contract once I get that I'm good right, that separates good from great. As it pertains to our leagues. It's a lot of things that gets you the girlfriend that looks beautiful but zero value added. So now after a while that becomes, you know, an argument that becomes divorced. If you got married early, then that becomes half of your money going somewhere else or whatnot. So many different variables that comes with that. Right, And so I think that again, the danger of the danger of eating that ego for so many years and then all of a sudden I have to switch it off and make business decisions. But wait a minute, It's been about me the whole time. So now I got to pretend it's about you. Right, That's what made LJ special. He's not pretending. He knows when it's not about him. I'm not the king in this arena. I'm not I'm not that in this room. And it's okay, right, And so more of our guys need to practice that. And then on the flip side, we as family members and frans and so on and so forth, we also have to respect you guys more and be less entitled and spend more time educating and positioning ourselves to be of value to you. Right, it can and be old because you made it. Then I should get this. No that it doesn't work like that, and it's never going to work like that. That That sounds like a like a scarcity mindset too. It's like the scarcity versus abundance. Well it is, That's exactly what it is. And so I just think that ultimately, you know, we have so far to go. And I'm passionate about this stuff. And that's why I do it. Man, I don't do it like you know, you read the things and I get it, and people say what they want to say, and you know, they had the agents come out and do a survey and you know all that type of corny stuff. I don't get into that. You know, I'm I'm actually just you know, the integrity and again, the things I've been through and the battles, the stripes I've earned throughout battle, I can't I can't focus on that. I'm trying to help young men and women not just make the most money they can, but to understand the business that they're in, understand the importance of their positioning evolved, think different. And I got a job to do, and I expect to get paid from my job, right and you got a job to do, and you expect to get paid from your job. To expective teams that you make the Pro Bowl, if you win the Super Bowl, if you have fifteen hundred yards and do all that. That's what that's what comes with it, and that we know. But then there's an in between to where we have to continue to sharpen each other's eyes because sharpen each other's n eyes because information and communication and being forthgiving and being in rooms where I'm not the man, You're not the man. Neither one of us is the man, and that's great. Those are the rooms we want to be in. I always say, if you're the biggest guy in the room, you're in the wrong room. I never want to be the biggest guy in the room. Even if I go to elementary school and speak to some kids, I'm going to learn something. I can guarantee you that I'm going in there with that open mind. And so it's just different, man, I just got a different approach. I'm just I could be more appreciative of where things at, where Clutch is as a company, the position I sit in and things like that. And again, working with guys such as Darren and we've built a great football practice and basketball practice, and we're going to continue to push the needle forward and hopefully when it's all said and done, our industry is a different industry for these young men and women. It's come a long way, it still has a long way to go, and it takes two you know, it takes us on the representation side to actually really give a shit about the player that we actually represent, and not just pretend, and not only call when the contract is up, and all those type of things we know take place in our industry, and not allow you over to the house when the contract is up, you know, all of a sudden, now welcome into your home? Whoa you know, Why wasn't I welcome three years ago? You know? So I'm really pushing the needle. I'm applying to pressure from that perspective because again, I know I can't represent every player, don't want to do that. It's not realistic, but I would like to see every player and represent it the right way. I love that you keep bringing up the word practice. I've heard it a bunch, and Darren and I talk about this a lot. But what we practice will grow stronger and for many people they get in the practice of distraction or feeding the ego or living from that ego place, but again, it's all about the practices. The other thing I heard was, you know, I don't know if you said it specifically, but relationships, and it always starts with the most important relationship, and that's the one we have with ourselves, and then from that. But if we're not right there, if we don't, if we're not in right relation with ourselves, then it's just projected outwards. But there's some themes and everything that you're saying, and it just it's your perspective is amazing. I always say, you know, there's that saying the level of your preparation determines the level of your performance, but I really believe it's your perspective actually shapes the level of your performance. And I think about your your upbringing in your life where it's it's all perspective, super inspiring. It's it's fascinating. Thank you, no, thank you, rich I want to ask you, just as me being a member of Clutch and seeing how big and how awesome media is right now, what were some of the like the jobs or the experiences that you had when you were younger, and what forms you to want to be an agent because I know, like coming up where you grew up. There's not a lot of people probably walking around saying I want to be a sports agent, Like what was that switch for you to want to pursue this route? You know. I was a ball player. I thought I was going to be a pro ball player. That was cut short at a very early age. But I always had a rapport with guys, with my teammates. I was a good teammate. I was always someone that the team actually looked upon. I was coming up with the ideas of what shoe we're gonna wear, how we're gonna come out, you know. And I was doing that since I was probably in the fifth grade or so. And then, you know, just being around the game, being around the sport. Like I said, my dad owned the store. I was in the service business. So I didn't really I had a confidence, but I didn't really have an ego, even though I might have had more than I might have had a flyer shoe or a doper jacket or whatever the case may be, of the actual athlete. I wasn't afraid to give the athlete their praise. And I knew the game. I knew all every sport baseball, football, basketball, and like he's like Donnie talked about perspective I had. I had an ability to put things in perspective to those and they'd be like, damn rich, I never thought about it that way, and then there was a trust built with them over time. And it's been like that, Darren Real, it really has. It's been like that since I was playing for the SIMS Raiders Community League in Cleveland, all the way up to playing at Bennedicton High School, you know, playing in the rec leagues. I played for Glenville Recreation Center to where you know, we beat teams in championships and I was shaking the opponent's hand and you know, not throwing it up in their face, but really celebrating them at the same time at a very young age, shaking their hand, being interviewed, saying the right things, thinking my teammates and things like that. And I have footage of this, darn so ever see it. But no, it was just it was just something that I had naturally within. I did not know what an agent looked like. I did not know that there was a possibility for me to be an agent. That wasn't something that I was looking forward to doing per se, but I did have an unbelievable in perspective on the collegiate teams and the guys that was getting recruited by high D one schools in my neighborhood, in my area. I can talk to him about certain letters they had got and why this coach was and you know, this type of system that he ran and why from a character perspective, and they work out. I just had that that that natural ability, and when I got an opportunity to be around the game, and when I got an opportunity to see the industry, you know, and if you just want my real, blunt, matter of fact thought process, I felt like, honestly, I feel like these guys wasn't that good. I felt like they leaned on a business card. I felt like they leaned on a previous relationship, whether it was with an athletic director or a coach that got them, you know, the inside scoop on the top talent. And as you know, someone in your position when you're going to college, man, I just want to go pro. So I'm doing whatever Granny or at that time it was grandma. Today it's more two parent homes. But I'm doing whatever they tell me to do. In the most part, and I really don't care who my agents or whatnot. And they've benefited from that for many years, being the first one to know that your stomach is touching and know that the lights are off and we're gonna keep it on the hush. You know, the industry benefited for that for a long time, having financial advisors that were friends of you and convincing star players to leave their current agent to come with you and you build home. You know, people build businesses from that, you know, the grass roots, having an inside scoop on the grass roots and having a direct entry point to these star players. People built big businesses from that. And I'm not knocking it because everyone has an entry point. People will say, well, you had Lebron James. People will say that about me, like, well, we had Lebron James. But what they don't know is when I first started Clutch, I started the business not knowing if Lebron was coming or not. You know, that was his decision. But it wasn't like I started the business. I made. I had my mind made up that I'm starting my own company no matter what. He saw my capabilities and saw my hard work and felt like you know what. I'm going to allow you represent me too, because I know you have the capabilities to do it, not because I've known you for a long time, not because you my boy. Those wasn't That wasn't his decision, and it wasn't Corey Joseph's decision. It wasn't Tristan Thompson's decision, and it wasn't Eric Blesso's decision. Those are the four guys I started the business with. Those are the first four clients. And so yeah, it was just one thing. You know, life, man, it's about managing transitions. And that's why I say this before. That's why I can't comes with a transmission. You gotta know when the part, when the reverse, when the state nutriment wouldn't accelerate. You really got to know that. And so I just managed to transition selling Jersey's doing this, acting in commercials, right, no commercials working at Nike, going to work here, starting clutch. I just managed those transitions and some of my most It wasn't a failure and it wasn't necessarily a low point per se, but knowing you the best in the room, knowing you had the best presentation, and not getting the client for whatever reason, can make you or break you. And in my case, it made me. It made me stronger, it made me more. I was driven, I was determined, and you know, I had it to where man people would tell me rich, you had the best presentation, I know you the right person for me, and the parents wouldn't sign the contract. The player is saying, I know you'll do a good job for me. You're the right person for me, and the parent wouldn't sign the contract. I've been in that position before. I've been in a position where the mom wanted to go one way to dad one, you know, And it's not personal, it's business, and I always never take it personal as it pertains to that. And that's why a lot of times we've had guys come back in because I'm going to be truthful with you. I'm not going to do a presentation where I'm lying and making up things and creating things that's a facade. I'm not doing that. I'd rather not get you as a client. And so we carry that throughout our DNA, throughout the company on both sides. But that's how I became an agent, That's how I started the company, and it was something that I didn't necessarily know, but but like you said, when my dad passed away, there was a drive that really kicked in. There was a fire that was lit, and I was determined to be successful. Not monetarily successful only, but because I like money, don't get me wrong, but I wanted to be somebody, you know, and I really felt like I had the ability to and the capabilities too, and I wanted to build something that was sustainable. And right now today, my biggest my biggest aspiration is building something that not just my kids can benefit from, but that kids that come from a place like me, Whether white, black, you know, male, female, don't matter. But just to know you have a home. And I don't necessarily have to graduate from college to work at Clutch Sports. I don't have to graduate from that, you know what I I There was a kid named Mike Cabongo, and I'll say this before we go. He was one of my first guys, and there was an issue and previous agency I was at, they they leaked some stuff to the media and there's a bunch of stuff and it cost this kid some stuff and it was a lot of stuff and I had to deal with this and everything came back cleaner whatnot. Was no issues. But for me, for for the first year and a half, people used this against me, just like they try to do the other stuff and all this other nonsense. But anyway, um, you know, he didn't make it to the NBA. My first draft, I had a kid that did not get drafted. And I'm holding this young man in my arms and he's crying his dream, you know, his family and the whole nine. And he went through what he had to go through. And I talked to him the other day and it was it was such a bright spot in my day to hear his voice. Number one, to know that he was okay. Number two and number three to offer him a job, and I hear, I hear so much in what you've said today. Just the main thing that popped out to me is just creating something that's bigger than yourself. You know, as me and Donnie, as people recovering from addiction, you know, we realized that the center of most of our issues was a self centeredness, like I needed to be to feel, to feed my needs at all times, to feed my desires at all times, regardless of what was going on around me. But through you, I hear you know, building a legacy, building something that people can benefit from going down the road. No matter what somebody's status may be, you know you are there for them and you're gonna provide whatever that you can for them. And it's so refreshing to hear, especially you being in such a position of power and a position of influence, even leading the agency that I'm a part of. You know, to hear you say these things and to reflect on your life story of how you adapt and how you grow, but not taking things personally, but learning and maintaining that humility. I'm blown away. I've learned a lot, I've taken away a lot, and I know people that are listening have as well. So I just want to say thank you, No man, thank you guys. It's just on um and again, you know, both of you guys are inspirations. You know, coming from a place where I've seen h the effects of substance abuse, I've seen people give up. We know it's mind over matter anytime you're in that situation. And for you guys, to come back and to be sending the position you're sending in and to um overcome those challenges, there's nothing short of amazing, and you know, don't ever think that you're alone in that in that aspect, because people need to hear that story. People need to know that that as long as you God allows you to wake up every day, you've got a chance and so you can turn around. And so I live by that, and I'm the most confident person in the world. You know, I was always the smallest guy in the room. You know, my older brother would throw me around and things like that, but I would come barging back and that's just been my mentality. And so I know, I really appreciate that this this was fun. Um, you guys brought some stories out of me that that I haven't that I've been living with for a while. Some people knew, but some people didn't. So it's always great to do these. So I appreciate you guys having me. All's that rich say, Man, I just want to acknowledge you for how you're showing up in the world and just getting to know your story and the Clutch family. I know you said Lebron was attracted to you, maybe by your capabilities and hard work, but it almost feels like you're attracting people because of who you are, not what you're doing or who you know, it's who you are as a human. And then I witnessed like, you know, Darren coming into the Clutch family and how you're attracting someone amazing like that, and then getting to know some a Darren's team with Quarrel Right and Joe and de Marius, like it's just amazing people that I feel like they're my family. And I'm technically not even under Clutch Sports, but it's it's a beautiful, beautiful thing, man, And it's just it's an honor to share this space with you and get to hear your story. Man. No, thank you so much, the guys. Maybe one day we'll do it again. Yes, sir, absolutely, Yeah, what's upcomeback stories family, It's Donnie dropping in here. So did you know that Darren and E's relationships started by me being his personal development, mindfulness and mindset coach. I want to let you know about both my one on one coaching program, The Shift and my group Mastermind Elevate your Purpose. These coaching programs are specifically designed for people who are ready to take the next step in their purpose and level up their career, personal finances, and have more connected, deep and meaningful relationships. My gift and part of my purpose is to help others take that next step and leveling up their lives so that they can have a greater impact on the lives of others, create success that sustainable yet evolves and grows, and help build a legacy that will outlive your life. If this is calling you, just go to Donnie Starkins dot com and apply for either one of my programs.