Ricky Williams' Comeback Story

00:00:10 Speaker 1: Welcome back, everyone to another episode of Comeback Stories. I'm here with my man, Donnie Starkins has always I'm super excited for the guests that we have lined up today. A guest whose poster I had on my wall as a kid from Sports Illustrated Kids magazine. Man that you guys would know for yeah, man, that was that was Those are the days right there. But someone you may know for running wild on the football field for Texas Longhorns, Miami Dolphins. But a man who was showing us as time goes along, how how many gifts are on the inside of him, how much more he is than just a football player. Excited to welcome Ricky Williams to the show today, Ricky, great to have you. Man. Wow, I think that's probably one of the best intros I think I've ever received. Thank you of course. Man. We always love to start the show asking people what life was like for them growing up, but I want to change it up today. I want to ask you when was the first moment you started to feel a bit of an itch or a tug that was telling you there's gotta be more to life than what I'm experiencing right now. You know, it's a good question. It happened um as soon as I finished at Texas, and you know, it was a it was a big goal of mine to to win the Heisman Trophy. You know, when I was a freshman of Texas, my email address was Heisman and U Texas. So I went like that was I was so like laser focused on being the best and to me, that was represented by the Heisman Trophy. And so after I wanted the trophy, Um, I didn't really dream beyond that. So it was kind of what's the next logical step, and it was going to the NFL. And as soon as I went into that mode and I didn't have a dream anymore, then I started to say, there must be there, There's got to be something more than this. And yeah, I know that. You know, that feeling had to have followed you through your time in the league, followed you through a lot of circumstances, a lot of different occurrences, and that it's may have gotten a little stronger, that that voice may have gotten a little louder. When did you really start to truly follow that voice with intention? It's funny because you know, it's it's nice to say the voice gets louder. But it's more the life gets more uncomfortable, right, because as the voice gets louder, you have to do more to try to quiet down and so um, you know. And it's it's interesting because especially when the voice is telling you something that is so against what everyone else is telling you. So I heard the voice a bunch of times, you know, maybe I shouldn't maybe I shouldn't be playing football, you know, And I thought, you know, one offseason, I started getting back in baseball shape, you know, thinking Okay, I'm gonna stop doing this and do something different. But it was just baseball because I don't think I had a wide enough idea of what I was capable of beyond just being a really good football player. Because for the most part, I was a smart football player. But that's only among football players, you know. And it wasn't until I finally got the courage to do what I really wanted to do and travel around the world, that I that I started to activate those other parts of myself. You know. As I started traveling around the world, I started meeting people who had no idea I was a football player. So I started getting you know, reflected back to me different parts of myself that people liked, and so those parts of me started to grow and I realized I have so much more value to give to the world. And just running up and down a football field and you know those other ways, they felt better and they hurt less. They didn't pay as well at the time, but but internally they were much more rewarding. That's that's amazing. I'd love for you to describe, like what were some of the emotions and the thoughts were of maybe being recognized as this great football player, but but nothing more than that. A lot of people looking like there are people that are stopping and looking through this glass like all the time it's recording this show, looking it right now, and they're just like, oh, like football player like this that in the third and it's like, I don't know, they think that our life there could be no wrong. It's it's so perfect. It's it's all we could have ever imagined. But a lot of times in my career I felt the complete opposite. And could you describe, like what it feels like to see those people and think that it's one thing and it'd be the complete opposite. Yeah, you know it. It took a while for me even to like appreciate other people's perspective, you know, especially again when I got into the NFL, it was it was under some kind of internal like lack of like purpose, you know, and so it was superficial, you know. And so I was like playing the game, you know, doing what I so I thought I was. I was like them. I thought I was supposed to have everything and living the dream too. But again the loud voice of my internal experience and when I go home and close the door, I feel empty. You know. That that's what can That's what can sue me. I was so stuck in that it was hard for me to to to appreciate other people's other people's perspective. Um. But but what what I did notice, and I think what did affect me was, you know, and when I was in college in Texas, I was the kid from California who is you know, more liberal and had different ideas, and it was kind of part of my it was like part of my personality. So it was it was a positive thing and it was appreciated. So I would share my interesting ideas and people would love it. And and I so I felt I had some kind of value beyond just being a football player, and I think that balance is why I had so much like success. And I get to the NFL and I started talking to the reporters, and I'm being the same person I was at Texas, but it's interpreted completely different. You know, weird and aloof and all these different things. And so when what the things that I truly valued about myself weren't being valued by other people. That was the hardest thing for me, and that felt like being invisible. I've seen you talk on multiple occasions talking about being comfortable being weird. That's something that took me a long time to figure out. I was always a people pleader since I was a kid. That the way that I showed up in the world. People were always like, why people my skin color? Why do you talk like that? Why do you act like that? Why do you hang around people like that? Why are you interested in these things? And so, you know, very early on it became like, Okay, being weird or being different is bad as opposed to being weird, being different is a unique gift that only I possessed the ability to be this way. And I appreciate you and I love that point so much because the inner child in me is like, yes, like I wish I would have had this long so long ago. But it's like, how how did you When did you start to really embrace race, that the weirdness about you and begin to see it in such a light. Yeah, So again, growing up, growing up in California, there's already a kind of expectation that people are going to be a little more individual. Okay, So so there's the that's the that's the lays the ground, the groundwork, and then in California it's it's it's like I went, I was bust into a predominantly like white school and you know, in California, they created a track system and it was a way to make integration work because they integrated the schools. But they said, we'll test all the students, and the ones that test and the A group will keep them in the advanced track and the ones that don't will keep them in the B track. And really what they were saying is we'll separate them by by race kind. But I happen to be one of the rare people in the school that tested up, and so I was in the upper track. So this this feeling of always being different it was just part of my identity because I was always different than everyone else around me, and even going to Texas, you know, being the guy from California, I was always different, but so it was integrated into my to who I was, and so weird was for the most part a positive thing. You know, I hadn't I hadn't learned enough about myself to realize how weird I was. But I was just weird enough to find that sweet spot. And then when I get to the NFL, I get weird, like it is not so cool. You know. There was a more I expect, an expectation to conform to a certain image of what people thought a warrior football player was supposed to be. And so that's when I started to become more sensitive to how different I was, because it was the first time where being myself wasn't wasn't getting a pleasant response until you know, and then I tried to pretend to be like everyone else, but that didn't work, and I felt that I wasn't very good at it, um, And so all I was left with was, I guess I gotta be myself. I've heard in both of your stories some synergies that um, I just wanted to bring up because I've heard your story and I obviously know Darren's story about Darren has talked about this many times and about not feeling black enough. And I've heard you say where you're too white, you're too white for your black friends and too black for your white friends, or I think I've heard you use the analogy of an oreo cookie where your friends would say you were black on the outside but white on the inside. And this is Darren's core wound which drove him, drove him to the depths of his addiction. So that piece and then the being different, right, those are the kind of the two things where I'm like, Wow, I can't wait to get these two guys together, these amazing, beautiful souls, to chop it up and have these similar backgrounds. Yeah, that's that's that's where it begins, because it's like, you know, you look at drugs and alcohol and things like that, and it's all like, I just want to change the way that I feel. It's like as you look back and peel back the layers and uncover, like why do I want to change the way that I feel? So desperately? The beginning phases of that were when I was a kid and when you know, the friends in my neighborhood were white and I was just playing with them outside because they were doing something I like to do and they were cool people. But you know, I would I would get you know, ridiculed for that all the time, Like and then that just became part of my identity, like you ain't really black, Like acting black was this thing. And it's like and you like, bro, I cannot change my skin color, like I'm going to be black, But to have that identity follow me around, it's felt like something that I couldn't change and that I was stuck with. And that's why it took me to so many levels and you know, coming into women and people pleasing and you know, thinking I'm not good enough at sports, Like all those things came from that wound of like, you know, as a man who is who is black and can't change that I'm not black enough, Like whoa, I'm a failure from the age of seven or eight years old. Wow, I mean I can relate to that, to that wound, you know, But I think the value, at least for me of going through that wound is you get to transcend it or you at least have the opportunity to transcend it, you know, and it took. I had a teacher, you know, when I retired from the NF, I really got into yoga, you know, like like hardcore. Like I was living at a yoga retreat and teaching yoga there. And and the main reason I was there is because I was looking for a guidance. I was looking for mentorship. And the head, the head yoga teacher there, she's very respective woman, and she she taught me a valuable lesson. Whenever she would hear me complaining about being black or being a man, she would she would remind me, she said, you are not black, you are not a man. No, and geor she was pointing to there was something internal that doesn't have a color or a gender. That is really the essence of who I was. And and it's I mean, that's a complex way of saying. You know, being being black and even being a man is an external shell, right, And it's only purpose is to is to be a filter or a vehicle to something for something more more profound to shine through. Right, Because if we take the vehicle when we have to and we identify with that, we have to identify with the history of it, okay, and the history and the history of being African American in this country is one that's rooted in slavery. And and I'm not saying we we we forget that it happened, but we but we keep perspective to realize, Okay, this is the vehicle through which something deeper and more profound is shining through. And and for me, like the experiences that I've I've had through that wound, it brought me to that place where I feel like I can hold both and within an appreciation and a love and a love for being male and being black, you know. And this is I'm just gonna get on a soapbox just for a minute, because it's it's coming. It's coming too my mouth, you know. I see people in the world like struggling, you know. And this is just my personal observation, is this idea of am my man and my woman and I can ident I get it, right, I get it. And to me, it feels similar to if I was a kid and I looked around and I was like, people aren't nice to the black people, right. They have negative stereotypes and they expect that they're going to rob them or do something bad and they're afraid of them. Right. If I was a kid, I'd have been like, I'm not black, I'm not black? Right? Can I be like not black? Right? And people look at me and laugh, you know? And I think it's it's the beginning to to to d attach ourselves from the labels. Okay, but we can't throw away the baby with the bathwater. Right. We have these bodies and we have to have some kind of way to understand the purpose and how to live in them, and how to appreciate them and dare I say, how to utilize them. I think that's the importance of doing soul work right going on this journey. I mean, you've been on quite the journey. And I know Darren's all about the work. Darren and I connected initially from me coaching him, and now you also teach yoga and mindfulness and meditation, and our relationship has evolved way beyond that. But it's it's being able to see see another human being on a soul level, and also be able to see ourselves on a soul level and not in this flesh or even the color of our skin. Yeah, I mean, and even like I'm just like blown away that we're having this conversation, you know, because people need to people need to hear I think people need to hear these words, even if they don't completely understand them. They need to get into people's consciousness so people have more options of how to show up. Well you, I've heard you talk many times about the uncomfortable conversations or the hard conversations, and we've talked about this a lot, and I always say, the conversation and at least one have is the one that we need to have next. But for my whole life, I've ran from hard conversations because I'm a peacemaker and I just don't want to confront that. And that's just rooted in childhood stuff and it's just conditioning. But I still I am smiling because I often still trip over the same things that I will teach somebody else. But I know this has been my work. But I've heard you say it multiple times and I just love I mean, some of your teachings, Ricky, and some of your wisdom is it's it's I'm totally on the same page. And I've learned a lot from you, especially doing a little bit more research these last couple of days. Oh, I mean to me that like what I've learned through all of the ups and downs, and I think that's the purpose. That's the purpose of the challenges, is that there's at the end of the day, if you pay attention, you look, you get something. Noah, And at the end of the day, like that, there's something inside of me that like if I listen to it, you know, regardless of the external result, I feel good about myself. And and there's less confusion, you know, there's less confusion. Yeah, it's like at this point in my life and just from like we just talked to Tommy Rosen and he was talking about nobody can tell you what to believe. You know. People can can guide us, people can show us away, whether it be it could be a great way for us, or it could be you know, the wrong way for us. But all they can do is give us suggestions and it's up to us to make the decisions at the end of the day. So I like to know, like, where has your search for meaning and your search for purpose in your life taking you geographically, mentally, spiritually, like take us through some of that journey. Oh wow, Wow, that's like that's kind of where I live. So I think i've I've you know, once I gave myself permission, I started to live my life based on curiosity, you know. And it's it's related to what I just said, and that curiosity was like rooted in that that voice I here inside, you know, And so it was it was in the NFL and um, my whole life. Okay, in my football career, it's like in high school, each year I got better, you know, statistically, and then I got to college. Each year statistically I got better. Then I got through the NFL. Okay, the first three years statistically I got better. Right. So ended that third year two thousand and two, I let the NFL and rushing went to my first Pro Bowl was All Pro eighteen hundred and fifty yards, okay, And so based on the trajectory, okay, I just knew I was gonna break two thousand yards the next year. Okay, this is because right, that's the way it's it's always been. And that next year, that next year began, and it didn't. It didn't go that way. Okay. I got a whole bunch of carries and not a whole bunch of yards. Okay, and and so the bubble popped. Okay, that bubble was my last bubble I had left. It popped, all right, Um, and so there was and I had to start asking myself, if it's not this, because it's obvious it ain't this, not the way I think it is, then it must be something else. And like as soon as I made that shift, I changed, and I started becoming interested reading. No, So I started just reading books that it caught my attention, and I started gravitating towards books about travel, and I started imagining myself like traveling around the world and having experiences that I've only thought about, but I never like pulled the trigger to go actually pursue the curiosity, all right. And then finally when I retired from the NFL, I was going no. I started to pursue the curiosity, and it felt so good that it just became the way that I lived my life. And so soon after I retired, it became known that part of my retirement was tied to fail failing of drug tests. And so the news news caught hold of this and all the negative stories we're going on. And at the same time, a friend of mine said she was taking a trip to Fiji and Samoa. So I was like, hey, can I come with you? And so I got out of Dodge. So I went to Fiji, went to some old and then I was there and I realized I was really close to Australia, one of my favorite places in the world. And so I said, I'm going to hop on a plane in Australia. So I flew into Sydney, hung out there for a couple of days. And there's a town and on the the east coast of Australia called Byron Bay. It's like a hippie town that I had visited once and I always told myself I want to get back there. So in Sydney, I hopped on the Grayhound, first time taking the Grayhound. Took the Grayhound, I think it was eight hours up to Byron Bay, thinking I was going to be there for a couple of days. Photographed the lighthouse and I was walking down the hill. I heard this voice from behind me say hey, and I turned around and there's this this older, probably in his fifties, white guy with dreads and he's wearing a Bob Marley shirt. And if he wasn't wearing a Bob Marley shirt. I probably just would have kept on walking, but I was like, this is interesting. So we ended up talking and connecting and it turned into like a scene from a movie where he became like my mentor for the next month or so, you know, and every day we'd we'd walk around town and he would and he would talk about nature. He was a gardener, and he would talk about nature. And he had this philosophy about nature he called the corn state. And you know, just the closest something is to its original state, the more vibrant is going to be its expression right. And the way he manifested this this philosophy, he's homeless cay I, meaning he lived in a tent kind of in the middle of the swamp and andy. But his in his most prized possession, he has like this five hundred dollars hand mill. And so he he was on disability. He'd get his check, he'd walk into town butcher and he'd buy a couple of pounds of grains and he would come back to his place and he would just grind all day long, and then at the end of the day he would he would and then he would share the bread with us um and I'm telling you something about it was vital. It was alive, okay. And so we spent about a month in Byron Bay and him like kind of teaching me his philosophy of life. And at the end of the last week there, he had this Bible and he said, I want to share this with you. I grew up very religious, but I've been away from the Bible for a long time. And so I picked up the Bible and I said, I'm just gonna start reading. And I started, like I just became like enthralled, you know, I'd be living a little bit. The story started to make sense, and especially the way I just away, you know, and I was out, like I was on that wavelength where I could appreciate what was going on in this book. And I got to and I got to the Gospels, and there was one verse that came across that changed everything for me, okay, as verse and Matthew and basically the verse says, if you leave home, family and everything looking for me, you will get all of those things hundred times in return. Okay. And in that moment, I felt like a right, like this is exactly where, this is exactly where I'm supposed to be and this is exactly what I'm supposed to be doing, Okay. And I was in that that that mind of just really listening to what my heart wanted to do. And I as I was reading the Bible. Okay, it might sound crazy, but I think you guys will get it, because if I need to go to the mountains and fast, okay, at this time of my life, I never fasted before. And I was in this town in Australia, and I didn't know where the mountains were, so right, got on Google and I said, are there any mountains close to Byron Bay? And I saw northern Northern Australia. I can hop on a greyhound and be there in a day and a half. And so I hopped on the greyhound and I went up to the mountains and I fasted for a week. Right, I mean I could tell a bunch of stories about that that week fasting in the in the wilderness. But when I came down off the hill, I had some kind of some kind of clarity, okay. And and Stephen and I my mentor, we had planned to fly to India to go rub Hash in the in the himalayas Um. But after coming down from the mountain. I had this clarity that I need to go. I need to go back home, and there's some unfinished work I have to do. Um And so it was funny. I was watching a Raiders game. This is cool, like one of those cool synchronistic stories I was in. I was in a small town in Thailand about to take a trip to India. Okay, I was about to go, and I was waiting for the tuk tuk in chang My, Thailand, at this little hostel. Okay. And I'm sitting down waiting for the tuk tuk, about to go to tai about to go to India and probably never knowing would ever see me again. Man, And this little guy comes up and he turns on the television okay, and the Raiders are playing the Tampa Bay Bucks. And I'm thinking, no way, okay, I'm way out here. And across the globe a guy turns on and there's a football game. So I got the message. So I got on the phone and I got the first flight back to because I realized there was work that I needed to come do, and so that brought me back. And that's that was that journey of where where my impulse, my intuition took me during that yar. Okay, so what when you upon your return to America, you said there's work to be done? What did that look What did that work look like? So you know, I imagined if I would have gone to India right gone on that path, I really just what I kept on moving away from the world, you know, and I might have found like a nice spot and just lived lived there. But I felt pool that there's there's work I actually need to do in the world, and because of the way I left, and that I needed to come back and clear my name and get on with my life, not run away from from my life. Um. But but at the same time, I also realized that to move forward in my life, I have to develop a skill, you know. I was. I had this moment in Australia. I found this beautiful piece of land that I wanted to purchase, and but in order to purchase the land, I had to become a citizen of Australia, and at that point I was I was all for it. So I started feeling out the paperwork and I got to a section where they asked, basically, what are you going to do when you get here, you know. And so it was a list of like two hundred and fifty occupations and I started going down the list, Yeah, and I got to the bottom of list, and I realized, I don't know how to do anything but play football. So when I when I came back, I had to like have this talk with myself and like outside of a football player, like what what is it that I actually want to do? And so I took inventory of my life and tried to say, like, what are the things that feel best to me? And when I realized what felt best to me was sharing insights with people that helped them like have some kind of release and feel better. And so I thought, that's like someone in like the counseling or the healing arts. And so I started looking for programs and I started studying at Ravada because part of my football career is that, you know, people don't think about this a lot, but in order to be a successful professional athlete, the one thing you have to be able to do is heal right, because if you're hurt, you can't play. And so I, you know, I spend so much time and energy and resources trying to recover and heal my body. That I came across these really interesting alternative modalities that were really that worked, and so I, you know, my curiosity led me to want to understand how they work, one so that I could do them on myself, but also so that I could help other people. And so that really became like a theme in my life. In a place where I've started, I found ultimate meaning of developing skills that helped me be more helpful to people and helping other people feel better. But in order to do that, but in order to do that, I had to come back and play a couple more years and show people, you know, that I had grown and matured through the process to develop the kind of respect that would allow me to do the kind of work that I feel I'm here to do. Coming back and playing a couple of years gave you closure and allowed you to at least kind of turn the page on football. But but do it the right way. And it's almost a way of kind of doing it your way and not being at the mercy of all the naysayers and letting them run with the narrative of whatever story they were creating around you. Yeah, And the big thing that I that I that was different when there was two things that were huge when I came back. One, you know, the year I was off, I did a lot of yoga, a lot of meditation, like a lot of work to like heal, you know, to heal, because, yeah, a lot of work to heal. So I came back a different person. And what I found was, in order to get into the zone before, it was more the rage from the pain. And when I started to go there and look for the rage from the pain, when I came back, it wasn't there so much. So and so it took me like a way to find another way to like tune into that to that place. And I utilize what I learned in yoga and meditation, um, and so like my my pregame, you know routine went from listening to music to get me hype to listening to the kind of music that got me into that soulful place. Yeah, And I noticed that my body recovered faster because it wasn't so revd up that I was. I was competing and performing more from a from an enlightened higher state than more from that animalistic um like rage that I think you have to access to be a successful athlete. I feel I feel myself tappening more into that enlightened place because I mean, like you just said, I don't Before the Games, I used to listen to straight trap music straight somewhat from eight to eight. It's like a horror beat like, but now it's like, I'm more like you might get me listening to some piano music Meditatan, like yeah, some soulful samples like things like that, because I don't know. I can ride the roller culture if I allow myself too emotionally just energetically, like I can be high, I can be low, like I can just be you know, my ego can be on swoll after a couple of plays. But then like if one thing goes wrong, you know, sometimes I can be in my head like why am I even building a house here? I need to I need to tear it to that like I'm not going I'm not even live here. They're gonna shot me out of town. So it's like finding that find that balanced state where it's like not too excited, not too fearful, not too worried, but just like yeah, and it allows you in a way to have a competitive advantage. That's that's why I feel like I has allowed me to elevate my career to where it is today, because it's not the rage to prove something. It's more so the being and knowing that I'm called to be here right now and this is my current platform. Well yeah, and also the expression of our gifts, you know, like to me, like like as I as I matured and I got older in the NFL, the fact that anxiety was always there, you know, if I don't perform things, but it transformed into a confidence of this is what I've been doing, you know, and I had a track worker and looking back of you know, the eight years of being anxious and realizing I still performed, and there's this this piece in this this freedom of just I go out there and do my thing. Yeah, well you were sharing Darren's It just feels like, I mean, I'm wearing the shirt that says find your center, but it's like that that's saying the middle ground is the holy ground where we're not too high, not too low. And middle doesn't mean like content just going through the motions. It means steady and steady and like grounded in the body, connected to the heart or connected to the breath, right, so we can be in our body, and when we're making decisions from our center, we're going to make better decisions. We're not making them out of reaction or fear, and ultimately that is like the ultimate healing state. So Ricky, how do you how does your body feel today? Like? Are the practices, the meditation, the yoga, I know you're into acupuncture, all the aria Vedic practices. How does your physical body feel today after all the wear and hair of being a starting running back in the NFL for so many years? You know, it's it feels I still feel, you know, because I was a big time running back for long so I still feel a lot of the hits. But what I realized halfway through my career is that we have to balance the intensity of the game with the intensity of our recovery and our healing. And so I spend a lot of time, I mean hours hours hours of body work. And again, I took classes to become a body worker. So in the classes, we work on each other and I work on myself all the time. And what I've taken from those experience is really is really a way to come to terms with with what occurred to my body as a football player, and to put it simply, you know when when you have an impact, okay, that they're swelling and there's things that have to go on for the body to be able to recover. And this is related to something that we just talked about highs and the lows. And I don't think it's so much about avoiding the highs and the lows because the nature of life is that it's it fluctuates. And I think the resiliency of humans of life, and the resiliency that manifests in our brain is the ability to recover, the ability to recover, the ability to go to the high and then come back to homeostasis, to go to the low and then come back. That's the joy of life. I think the issue is when we go to the high and we get stuck there, or we go to the low and we get stuck there. Okay, that's trauma. That's the effect of trauma. And so and the body work that I've like, that I've received and I've learned to do, it really is just about bringing movement, bringing energy, blood flow back into certain areas of the life because of the body. Because the body has a tremendous ability to heal once there's life force and movement, right, we have this adaptability, and I think what happens is when we take so many hits and so much it puts a burden on that adaptability and we don't and we only can adapt in a short range. And so anything we can do in our life with our thinking, with our movement, to bring movement and flow into all areas of our lives, I think that's the key to healing all kinds of trauma. Because what I'm saying is physical impact, but we all have had emotional impacts, and the trauma works the same way. We get stuck in this emotional place and we don't have the flexibility to move to move out of it. And the more we can be flexible with the people in our lives and the way we interact and how we interact, it brings that movement back so that we can resolve all of these things because we've we've all been through it. We've all been through a war. Infinite flexibility. One of my friends and meditation teachers, David g has a meditation called infinite flexibility, and so yeah, physical flexibility, mental flexibility, but just being being agile, being able to be in the flow and again, just come back, continue to return to homeostasis or to return to our center. What does your self care game look like today? What are some of your practices? Do you have a morning routine as it consistent? What does that look like? Yes? So, I mean I'm I'm forty five now, So I've kind of played with all of this and I figured out something that works for me. And so my when I came back to the NFL after retiring, my hobby was taking classes. So I have like a toolbag of like modalities, techniques, so many and at first it was like which ones, how do I integrate them into a practice. And what I realized now is the first part of my practice is listen to my body, you know, because it's it's great to have a lot of techniques, but if you don't have the receptivity to listen and pay attention, then it becomes confusing. And so listen. I listened to my body, and depending on what my body wants, I have things in the toolbag to treat okay, But the thing that I do every day is when I when I wake up in the morning, the first thing I do is a prayer, you know, and it's like a prayer to remind myself of that I'm not here for myself, that I'm here to play a part in something larger than just me. And I like starting my morning with that reminder just it's it's a daily thing. And then to support that. After that, I have a few more prayers that I do and just to remind myself that I'm not alone, that I that I have help okay um. And then and then I do I'll do sun salutations um, which that's the minimum of what I do. And if I have more time and my body needs more, UM, that can change into movement like tai chi or cheegung breathing exercises. Um, it could turn into a longer yoga session. It could turn into a longer meditation session, or just laying on the ground and in shavasana and just going deep into relaxing different parts of my body. UM. But I try to set aside at least an hour and a half every morning to like to ground myself in my path. How long did it take you to get settled into that hour and a half, Because now like I've I mean, I'm I'm five years into you know, a journey of seeking healing, and seeking of growth and their mornings where you know, sometimes I'm like, like the meetings, you got to be here at treatment at six in the morning. Uh, you know you up at five or maybe sometimes even before, and it's like, you know, I try to do the thirty thirty minutes. It's like as long as I can do like a normal day, or I feel like I can do, Like how long did it take you to really carve out that ninety minutes and feel okay with creating that block and not worrying about anything else outside of it. Yeah, I mean it took It took him times in my mid forties, far after retiring and to a place where I create my own schedule, so I make sure to put that in. But when I was a football player, I was at half an hour. That it's that that sweet spot. I would make sure to give myself half an hour, and then some days if I was feeling like really beat up, I'll try to wake up a little bit earlier. It's funny like the last the last two years of my career in training camp, I did like a self inflicted meditation challenge, and it was a specific meditation technique that took picks about forty five minutes, and so I would get up in training camp. So I wanted to see if I was meditating consistently, how would it affect how I went through training camp, And so it was. It was a difficult practice, but I did it. In the main area that I focused on towards the end of my career was the time we have after meetings on Saturday night, you know, when we're done, That's when I would really go into like my like meditation routine. And then in the morning before the game, I had about a forty five minute sun salutation and a specific meditation that I did. So during the week it was hard. I had that half an hour, but I would take the night after, the night before the game, and a little bit the morning before the game to really like that was my weekly practice. Can you talk a little bit about the importance of building the relationship with your own mortality or coming to terms with our own mortality, or allowing death to be our teacher, because I think it's a very very important teaching that I think in our society a lot of people don't talk about it, or they just kind of turn a blind eye to it. And my experience and what I'm learning is that death can actually teach us to live. What are your thoughts on all that? Oh? I mean, it's one of my favorite things to talk about, you know. I just because doing bodywork, I come to appreciate. If I'm working on someone's head and I start to put my awareness on their feet, I become aware of connections between the dura or the fasha in their head and the fasha and their feet. I feel the connection. So wherever we put our awareness, that's where the mind goes. Okay. And the reality is that death is coming for all of us, okay. And I remember when I was seven, Okay, I had this big fight with my mom, right, and I decided I don't want to live anymore. Okay, I made that decision. I'm out of here. Okay, this woman is crazy. I'm out of here. Right. And so I started to imagine myself not living, and I couldn't do it. I couldn't do it right, even when I went to death like me existing, I couldn't imagine myself not existing. So I gave up on that idea. Okay. So, so I realized that whenever my experience, whenever we die here, we don't we don't cease to exist where we keep existing. And so the future is coming, Okay, it's coming, and you know, we can think about thinking about next week. Okay. If I think about next week, right, I can start to do things now to prepare me for next week. Right. That's the whole idea of we know we're playing the Patriots, and so we get the game plan and we prepare ourselves to getting ready to play the Patriots. Okay, Right, We're more prepared for the future. Right. And so I think when we start to think about what is beyond, at least putting our attention there, okay, right, it starts to even if we're not we're not consciously aware of it, it starts to create these neural connections that allow us to start to prepare for whatever's coming, just for the simple fact that it's coming. Okay. And in another way, I think about it, and I use this one a lot. You know, I go to that moment on my deathbed, because again, I know it's coming. So I go there. I go there, and I think, like, how do I want to feel I'm allowed to do that, right, how do I want to feel? Okay? And what I want in the sense I get is there's there's certain things that I feel like I need to accomplish to feel good at that moment, and that check in reminds me to make sure on some level I'm attending to those things that are going to feel good at that point, because I would like to feel good in that moment. You know. And from what I've heard people say, as as we're leaving this this this earthly existence, that our whole life flashes in front of us. I've heard that a lot a lot of people say that, and the only the only thing I have to compare is when I picked up the phone to retire from the NFL. Okay, my whole life flashed in front of me, right and I had this like this realization of wow, so much of my identity has been tied to me as a football player. Okay, so I had some glimpse of a resident experience of this moment where we reflect and we get this whole picture. And I think to be aware of the whole picture of our existence now, you know, helps us like step like, step up to the challenge and do our best to to to express something that feels good to us. Can you talk a little bit more about that phone call and what that phone call? What was the obviously was there more to it? I mean, if I've I've heard some of your story about you had maybe an ultimatum of either or not not You're either taking opiates or not taking opiates, or taking opiates or smoking weed, and that was the option, and you chose not to take take opiates. Is that Is that kind of the story or part of it? I mean, that's a that's a version of the story. I mean, we can talk about that now because we have more more we're more liberal and our ability to talk about cannabis and to talk about opiates because the people are more informed. But this was back in two thousand and four, where when you talked about these things, you typically did them in private. And so it was it was there was a confluence of events, confluence of events going on. But the general message through the confluence was that there are experiences I need to have and staying stuck to this identity as a football player is going to keep me from having the experiences I need to have. Right, It's what we talked about earlier. We get the voices, right, I got the whispers saying walk away, But I said, I can't, I can't, I can't. So I made a deal with myself. I said, if I fail another drug test, I'm gonna walk away. That's like and if I somehow don't fail a drug test, it means that I'm supposed to play, all right. So it's about a week away from the season. It was the last test, so I knew if I passed this one, it's the I'm in okay, and Joe I was. I was in the Bahamas with a good friend of mine, a good friend of mine who has some property down there. So we're hanging in the Bahamas. And I kept telling my sister because in the NFL's drug program, if you fell a test, seven days later, you get a fed X Okay. And so I told my sister go buy the house and see. And this was the moment of truth. Okay. And I got the call from my sister, you got a FedEx okay. And then it's like the world started to like wobble. My heart started beating fast, and I was like, okay, here we are, you know. And and so I was talking to my friend, who I respect a lot, and he's like, you know, go for it, and so I went into his office and at the letter it says, you know, if you have any questions, called doctor Brown. Okay, doctor Brown's ahead of the NFL's drug policy. So so so I called doctor Brown, you know, and he's like, ah, you know, sorry, And I said, nah, you don't have to worry about me. I don't got to worry about me. I said, I'm done, you know, I said, I said, thank you, this has been great, and have a good life. And then I hung up the phone. Um, that was the call. And it was it was like again but before I before I was, I was walking to make the call. That's when everything, the whole life, lashed in front of me and I realized I was giving all of that up and and I didn't know how it was going to feel what I ng up the phone. But I hung up the phone, and I felt this huge weight lift off my shoulders, huge weight um, and this this freedom of I'm not stuck in that place of that that's that place I'm having to keep proving myself over and over and over and over and over again that I've proven myself and now I've earned the right to do what I really want to do in the reality of it outside of my mind was have enough money to do it right. There's nothing telling me I can't. It's just a matter of owning the opportunity and making the difficult choice. And I needed to fail a drug test to like push me, push me a little bit more. But you know, that's what happened. It comes back to the whole idea of death, because the one constant in this life really is that in order to achieve something, we have to sacrifice something else. It's it's dying to the old or releasing the old so we can invite in the new. So um, it kind of all does circle back to the message around death. And it sounds like once you were able to let that go. I mean, listening to you articulate in your wisdom and the path that you're on, it feels like you are way in your way, more in your purpose now than you've ever been in your life. Yeah, And that was that was the commitment. I mean I didn't I wasn't aware that's what I was doing, But that was the commitment I was making in that moment. And it's and I you know, I people don't think about it when they when they when they hear me speak, But I consider myself a very like practical person in the sense, if something works, I'm gonna do it, you know, and if something doesn't work, I'm probably gonna stop doing it. M man. I I'm over here just from missing over my FedEx days from the league um fex PTSD. Yeah, no, no, seriously, my parents. My parents have FedEx PTSD from letters coming to the house and I'm stuffing them into trash can and try and trying to hide hide them and stuff. But it's like you talked about that weight being linted off your shoulders. I felt that like I was in. I think I was in like a Lincoln Town card riding through like the New England. Because I went to detox in Boston and I went to rehab in Maine and just like sitting there and thinking and listening to myself for once and like knowing that I was really taking a pause and really taking a step. Like That's when I felt that similar release, because I knew I was heading into a play where hey, I'm actually gonna make a decision for me now, and whereas before in the previous twenty five years I had never made a decision for me. It was always what aligned with you know what we talked about in the beginning, like what everybody else was doing, like what what I should be doing? Like what? And it was just like I don't know, man, I'm just thinking about THEO FedEx memories and that time in that car going to rehab. I'm like, man, like our this is so similar FedEx. Man, that's real. So doctor Brown, huh Doctor Brown's I send doctor Brown so many emails lying like trying to finess my way out of a situation, like just but a job. He was the he's the boogeyman. What time? Man? But hey, Ricky, I know, um, we'd probably have to let you go in a few minutes. But I just wanted to want. I wanted to ask one thing. Would you be willing to give Darren um a reading? I would love to treat him. I'm all abuse, can send me the invoice. But Darren just celebrated a big five year sobriety birthday and I would like to gift him that. And I think, I know you have a gift, but to be able to share your gift with him and tap him into the astrological world and get him dialed in, Oh my god, that would be an honor. Yeah, I'm gonna ask my mama. Time I was born at I was telling him to give him a breakdown to figure out what is rising and what his moon is and get all that dialed in so we can connect the dots. Yeah, I mean when I when I first was introduced to astrology, it was that year off. It changed my life because it gave me a like because I think the reason we we we we follow what other people learnt from us is because that's all that we have available to us. And when I found astrology, it tuned me into like a bigger a bigger parents vision for me, you know, And that made more that resonated more with me. So yeah, it's it's it's a great lens to understand ourselves and our purpose. I just moved to San Diego. I live in Salana Beach, and um, I'm moving from Arizona to San Diego. But just watching the moon and the impact the moon has on the tide and the ocean and the power of it, I've never been more into it than than I have today. And so as I was hearing some of your story and talking to our our mutual friend Brian North, about it. I was like, yeah, we gotta get Darren dialed in on this, no doubt. Oh, I gotta. I got a question. Um, we just interviewed Brandon Marshall earlier and we were talking about how like you guys had a conversation about him going to see the doctor at McClean hospital, doctor Gunderson. Yeah, yeah, how how how did how did you first get connected to him in order to pass that along to Brandon? Yeah, So this was this was um FedEx. Okay, April the FedEx came and this was like I was, I was scheduled to go. I was was after my years suspension, and I was I was going through the interviews to be reinstated. So I was booked to go to New York and talk to the two doctors there and then to go and talk to doctor Gunderson to get back in. And I ended up failing a test a week before I was going to be reinstated. And so when I called the NFL, Doctor Brown, when I called the NFL and and they said, well, I'm sorry, you know, we're going to cancel your appointments because you know obviously you're not going to be reinstated. And I said no, no, no, no no, I said, I still I said, I still want to go, and I said, I still want to go and just have these conversations. So they said fine. So I went to New York and had some amazing conversations with these two doctors, and then I went to Boston and I started talking to doctor Gunderson and we just connected, you know, we just really connected. And he said, he said, I think you could really benefit from intensive psychotherapy. He said those words, and they kind of stuck with me, and so I went back to California and the NFL said, obviously, we're not going to reinstate you. Then I said, would you guys support if I went to Boston and I worked with doctor Gunderson for longer period of time, And they said yes, and so I moved, moved my family, we went to Boston, and I spoke to doctor Gunderson five days a week for six months, right, And part of the program was also I did groups every day. So really just another opportunity to really get to know myself and work on myself with someone that I really respected. And and it was a magical moment for me because I had the realization of a further realization of what I wanted to be doing with my life. You know, after talking to doctor Gunderson, the sense I got is I don't really want to be playing football. I want to be doing more what you're doing. And so, you know, out of that time, I got that clarity and it was just so meaningful that when when Brandon mentioned that he had met doctor Gunderson, I shared my experience and I said, it's like it's worth it. You know, he's just doctor Gunderson. He just had a way of like being like the old wise guy that like steps out of the way and lets your let's your story unfold. And he helped me really come to term with who I was in a way that made it that made it feel good to be myself. Man. I read a quote about you saying that you were talking about celebrities but in general, like people um giving permission for you to be yourself. And you know, I hear that in the story that you just said and the story that you shared with your mentor in Australia, and I know that you continuing to speak and grow in the way that you are is giving other people permission as well. And I'm just grateful to have the opportunity to talk to you today. Man, It's uh, this has been amazing. No, I mean, you know to me like and I don't I'm not even saying I have anything to do with it, but but I'm saying to have this conversation with someone who I who I respect for what they do on the football field, like to to your sensitivity and your self awareness, like it makes me feel like like everything I went through is worth it if if people coming behind me can can embrace this and be themselves, can have permission. So so I like, I'm so touched by this conversation and like so impressed with who you are as a man and what you're doing with your life that this is. This has been an amazing experience for sure. Yeah, thanks Ricky Man. I mean, just to sit back and witness and to see, um, you know, two athletes to humans, two souls that you know at some point where you know, I feel like Darren's still in the football world, still in his career, but um, I talk about it all the time, and maybe I'm speaking for him, but I do feel like if football were to end for him tomorrow, that he's going to be good because he has a purpose beyond the sport, just like you do. And how you found that, and I think, um, you know, I think having that leading up to before your career ends, if you're an athlete out there or whatever you're doing, to be able to find a purpose beyond or an identity beyond um your sport or your job title, wherever that is. And um, you know, I know you've said it before. We're part of a select Heberty's purpose is to give people permission and to sit here and watch you do it is It's an honor, man, It's an honor to have this conversation. So thank you, no thanks for this. And the one thing I want to say as I leave is the one thing that I've recently been been integrating more is not throwing away the baby with the bathwater, and that all of the things that I learned as a football player, I have given me the ability to overcome the difficulties that I faced, right because just the model of football is it doesn't matter who's coming into town. We got a game plan and we have to go execute. So in my life, as soon as I can get clear on who is the opponent, like, what is the challenge okay, my mindset goes into okay, you know through everything I got at it and see how it goes And I think that that is just as much the key to my success is any of the meditation or the yoga that I've done, but that that warrior mindset is necessary to be successful in life. Look forward to doing some yoga with you one day soon we will blow it out. Yeah, looking forward to Well, thank you fellas. Yeah, appreciate you. Thanks brother. Yeah, what's up? Comeback stories family, It's Donnie dropping in here. So did you know that Darren and E's relationships started by me being his personal development, mindfulness and mindset coach. I want to let you know about both my one on one coaching program, The Shift, and my group Mastermind Elevate your Purpose. These coaching programs are specifically designed for people who are ready to take the next step in their purpose and level up their career, personal finances, and have more connected, deep and meaningful relationships. My gift and part of my purpose is to help others take that next step and leveling up their lives so that they can have a greater impact on the lives of others. Create success that sustainable yet evolves and grows and help build a legacy that will outlive your life. If this is calling you, just go to Donnie Starkins dot com and apply for either one of my programs.