Unlocking Purposeful Living

00:00:04 Speaker 1: Comeback Stories is a production of Inflection Network and iHeartRadio. What's Up, everybody, Welcome back for another episode of Comeback Stories. I'm so pumped for today's show as I actually found today's guest on TikTok like maybe two weeks ago and was so moved by his words and his delivery and story speaking ability. I really always try to get close to people that have something that I want, so like, this is kind of a selfish move on my part, but I know many other people are going to benefit. And when you speak, I honestly, when I was hearing you talk, it kind of to me it sounded like a smarter version of myself talking. That's kind of like like using the same words, but just like, really, man, I really appreciate your words. So our guest today has spent the last decade traveling over eighty countries around the world, working with all kinds of people, companies, and not profit organizations. He's been teaching and leading people how to heal their heart, awaken their souls, and become the most radical and loving, truest version of themselves. So welcome to the show. B C siRNA, Wow, sir thanks for being here. Thanks man, it's those introductions are always like you know, like teeth cooling of like all right, all right, let's get to it, you know, but I appreciate that. God, let's let's let's talk about that right away, Like I would love to I mean, we're gonna maybe get to your story. Well, we'll get to it at some point if this has to be two episodes, but I would love to know right away that that that acknowledgment, that why do we struggle so much with acknowledgment? Right, Like we're we're as humans, we're bad at acknowledging, like the practice of it, both to each other and definitely to ourselves. But why do you think that is that we struggle when someone is like like cheering us on or giving us praise. Oh man, ask you a question. I mean, you guys already know you know, it's just that that h that like I guess that just like friction between like just we're normal people. We're like I'm a goofy dude who just laughs at jokes with my friends and and you know, like I've been super I guess, humbled and honored to travel the world and do what I've done. But at the end of the day when you want to I think the you know, the more you succeed in, the more accomplished in life, you just want to like be you just want to be normal and real with people. And uh so, I don't know. It just is kind of like that funny it's like the opposite of what you strive your life for. Like you strive your life to have like the front of your business card mean something, and then once you get there, you kind of just want to focus on the back of your business card, you know, like the part of the business card no one sees, like who you truly are. Wow, And uh yeah, man, So I don't know, man, you know you're saying that stuff, and it's just kind of like, ah, man, like I don't even I don't even know where to begin other than like God's good and like I've been humbled my whole life just by by like the grace of God, you know, not like in a religious way, but just like in a way of like humbledness. So it's beautiful. Yeah, I think that acknowledgment thing I think sometimes on This is sometimes an exercise I will do on my retreats often is if somebody's maybe at the end of the retreat, someone's sharing something. We would do this like thunderous applause, so they would share whatever, a ninety second story stand up in front of everybody, which is extremely vulnerable and you know, one of the scariest things for many people to do and get that thunderous applause, and they wanted to they could not get back to their seat quicker, you know, or they're crossing their arms, or they're getting completely uncomfortable because we're not used to doing it. But then there's a whole nother thing around the self worth, like are we worthy of this? Or there's the idea of like diminishing right and dimming our lights. So yeah, I love that you we just dove right into it, man, But I want to go back and tell us a little bit about your childhood and what it was like growing up for you man. I know, you guys have a dope podcast joked for like you guys' topics and conversations and obviously comeback stories and uh yeah, childhood. I mean, man, that's that's a funny. That's a funny way to start of just like, yeah, never really fit in I guess very similar, you know, I was dyslexic ADHD. I moved a lot, so I never really had friends. I never really found like a core group of dudes. I just moved all throughout the country and just feel like I felt like I missed a meeting, Like there was like a meeting on how to be a human, and I feel like I missed it in like third grade or fourth grade, and there was all these clicks of people, and I was like, did I miss something somewhere? Like why do I feel so behind and left out? And I started school young, so like I was younger than everyone too. But yeah, man, so I guess that was like the biggest part of my journey of just being like, damn, I don't feel like I fit in or I belong or I don't know what I need to wear or do. I tried skateboarding, I tried sports. I was like, what do I need to do for someone to invite me over for like a sleepover? You know what I'm saying. So, yeah, Rose, there's a lot journey did you have, Like can you can you trace back to an early childhood memory of pain? Oh? Yeah, man, shit, I've done a lot of inner child healing work. Man, I don't even know where to start. Uh. Yeah, man, I think I think when I was uh, when I was left out, you know, like when I was picked, when I started to be picked last and I got. I got. I was playing football when I was eleven and I got a blood clot in my brain. I got a concussion and I had to have brain surgery at eleven years old, and I almost died. And I missed like a month or so of school, and uh, I went back to school and all the kids at school made fun of my scar. I have like this massive scar on the side of my head, and so all the kids were making fun of me, and I felt like I was in I was in fourth grade or I was in fifth grade, and I remember just sitting in my desk being like, God, if you can make me invisible, like just please make me invisible, Like this is the worst I've ever failed my entire life. Like everyone looking at my scar. I had like thirty stitches. It was ugly, it was nasty, and yeah, that moment just wanting to be invisible kind of lived with a decade or so of just like that kind of tenderness, you know. Yeah, I mean our stories kind of sound identical as far as like the the source of like I feel like an alien here in this world and in these environments I'm always in. That's what I always talk about. Like the first episode we did on the podcast, Donnie interviewed me, and I said, you know, growing up for me was confusing because you know, here I am is uh, you know, this black kid with his first group of friends are white. They're in his neighborhood kind of just doing what he likes to do outside, and you know, you go to school and everything. I feel like everything I did was just like seeing through the eye of a microscope from you know, people with my skin coldors, like well, why do you do this? Why do you talk like that? Why do you listen to this music? Why do you Why are you so sensitive? Why are you? And it's just like I feel like I couldn't take a step from early elementary school without being like, okay, how do I arrange every movement, every thought, everything I do to let these people know that I'm okay or let these people know that I'm normal. And it's very exhausting. And I mean, here I am thirty one years old, still kind of dancing around that inner child work myself of really diving, like I feel like I've made some progress and acknowledged it, but as far as there's still some things that I need to go back for, like and so it's I very much relate to your early journey. That's why I'm just kind of sitting here just like, man, yeah, looking like I'm looking in the mirror thirty one. Man, it's young, Donny. How old are you? I'm forty six. Let's go. Okay, you guys got some good diversity. Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, what's what's cool? Is your your business card? Analogy? I'm thinking about my business card and actually on the front of it is you know, my information, and on the back of it is a QR code for the podcast. So I guess that tells you who I am. Man. Yeah. Well, I feel like a big part of like I said, we I feel like we spend our twenties just trying to put on all these badges. We're trying to like prove ourselves. We're trying to like validate, like we're seeking validation, and then we finally turned thirty and we're just like exhausted and we're just we just like start peeling off all of these badges we've spent our entire adulthood putting on, and we start peeling off friendships that don't really serve us anymore. And I truly begin our life begins at thirty, Like I believe at thirty years old, we actually start unpeeling the layers of authenticity. And so, yeah, Darren, like I said, thirty one, man, that's I was. I was at thirty one years old. I was in the desert for two months by myself, with no cell phone, and I found found God. Bro, you know, like, tell us more, tell us the story. That's amazing. Yeah, thirty one years old, COVID happened. LA was shut down. I was living in LA for like eight years and LA was shut down. So I built out a van. And you know, like there's little vans you can live in and yeah kind of, but like a big like a sprinter one. Oh yeah, yeah yeah. So I built out a Sprinter van. One day and I left my house in LA with all my friends. I lived with all my friends like near the beach, and just drove to the desert and turned my phone off, deleted social media, and I was just like I got to figure out what I need to do to evolve to the next level of life. And it was crazy, bro, it was a wild journey, man, just two months like pretty almost by myself and just yeah, solitude. What did you learn? Shit? I learned bro, man, dude, it was the whole journey of a like ego death of dying. Like I've been on this journey for a long time and had many different ego deaths. But I think I was still getting through, like over a heartbreak from a girlfriend that I had that was in LA for a while, and I just La is so enticing, man, It's so distracting. There's fame everywhere, there's women everywhere, there's like there, It's just everything is like so enticing in La. And so I was just so distracted for like seven years and extremely grateful. But I realized whether it was women or success or anything like that, there was no amount of enough. It was just more, you know. And so I think I got so drunk on arrogance and like my like my head was just up my ass trying to figure out who I was. So when I went to the desert, all my friends thought I was crazy, Like what do you mean you have? Like your work is amazing. You know, you live on the beach with your friends, and it was just my coming to God moment. So yeah, man. And then in the desert, like I said, I found God and whole new way I didn't I knew God. And like I used to be a youth pastor for inner city kids when I was in my early twenties, so like I was like and I lived with monks. I've studied religions and beliefs all around the world and I've never I've just done a lot of when it comes to spirituality, but I never understood the actual church, in my opinion, is nature. Like nature is holds the answers. Man. I just I've like had encounters with the divine, with God, the Holy Spirit. But then I was in nature and I was like, oh, this is it. I was like, nature holds all the answers to the questions we have. And the way nature works, how slow it is, how patient it is, how it all communicates with itself. So I started leading retreats to nature. Oh yeah, you lead retreats to Sedona. Yeah yeah, yeah yeah. So I started bringing just groups, I like started bringing like twenty five people on a retreat through nature. After these two months, and I didn't know this, I didn't plan on making retreats after this. I literally went to nature for two months and then God was like, bring people to nature, and I started bringing people on retreats into nature and it was crazy. It was awesome. No's amazing. I get that because I've spent a decent amount of time in nature. I've been to Sedona, I've been a lot of places, but one place in particular that stuck out to me was I went to Zion National Park January of twenty twenty two, I guess, and just being in that environment and everything that you talked about, but also just this feeling of like I've never felt so small, but also like never felt like I was more in the place that I should have been at that very moment. And like you said, like the distractions of La or Las Vegas or New York, wherever you may be at aren't there. Like nature is still. It's not moving, it's stood through time. It's you know, forcing you to kind of sit there and do the same and mirror that. And it's beautiful. Man. I always look back on coore things that I value and things that kind of fill my cup and when I'm not feeling all the way there, I can look down and check that list and know that nature is probably not being stepped into as I would like to. And as soon as I get get out there and get in and I'm just like, ah, like deep, excell you know, oh yeah, man, yeah, you guys know, you guys have to say, yeah, we led retreats to Sedona and Zion and all those places, and yeah, man, it's just like the same thing as you go, like, we're part of nature, We're part of the animal kingdom in a sense, and so like you go to a zoo and all of the animals are depressed and anxious and on drugs. All the animals look like they're miserable. And so you go to an urban jungle the city and everyone is on medications and coffee and they're they're they're they've lost the vibration, the frequency and connection to their home, you know, which is nature. And so yeah, man, it's it's so healing, it's so cathartic and therapeutic. Darren, didn't you weren't you fasting during that Zion trip or was that a different trip? I think I might have been. Yeah, that was around That was around the time that I started like implementing it into my off season, you know. And it's something that I miss because with fasting, I mean I kind of inspired from a book that I read by a Christian pastor, but the way that it was presented at the time of me trying to figure out just my relationship with lust in general and just like you know, being attracted to everything walking and like having to try to manipulate, you know, and fasting was presented as a way to strengthen my no and to yeah, you know what I'm saying, and strengthen my response when it came to what was the book. The book is called The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry by John mal Comber, one of the best books I've ever read. Always recommend, recommended much times on this show. But I did it. I did it for a day the first time, and then I started doing one day a week. And those days you think like, oh, you're gonna be irritable and angry, But once you get past the stomach kind of screaming at you and get into the flow of your day, like those little trivial anxieties that you think about throughout your day are gone, and there's like this stillness and clarity that comes from it. I just really enjoyed. And I did a three day fast once too, so it's just like kind of diving into that and I want to see you know. I mean, I'm still playing ball, so I can't do it all the time, but that's something that's gonna be a part of my routine going forward because I just feel like there's such more to explore there, you know, dude, it's the most sacred. Fasting is the reason Jesus fast, the reason Muslims fast, and Jewish people and Buddhists like the reason fasting is in every spiritual practice is because your relationship with food is a relation is your relationship to everything else in your life. So how you show up to food is how you show up to every area of your life. So if you don't have discipline with food, if you don't have consistency with food, if you don't have a good relationship with food, it just literally projected into every part of your life. Food is the most vulnerable part of our spiritual journey, and so dude, it's fast. Fasting is the UH is one of the portals bro to uh, to where you need to get to this then to get to the promised land of that man. That's powerful. I've heard, yeah, it was on it was on so many different things, bro. But he got to fasting as a practice of slowing down or something to implement into it. And but yeah, Bro, I highly highly, highly highly recommend that book. I'm gonna write that one down. I've heard you say that to our mission, our number one mission is to figure out what you need to do to be fully okay with who you are. And yeah, man, just like keep going on that one. Yeah, I mean, that's that's part of the journey man, that we're all on of Just man, why are there things? Well, I mean the question the easiest thing is why are there things we don't like about people in the world. That's easy. Everyone can list people they don't like, politicians, they don't like, things they don't like about the world. That's the easiest thing you can do. And then people can easily list the things they don't like about themselves and how those worlds are tied together. And once you start, like I said, once you start peeling back the layers, you realize everything you don't like about people or you or you judge people is just because you don't like that about yourself, and so you start to just have grace and forgiveness for yourself and you're like, oh, man, I don't like that about myself because of this, I don't like the way I look because of this, I don't like you know, And you just go down the list and then you forgive yourself and you have grace for yourself, and then you look at everyone else and you go, ah, man, I don't need to I don't need to be I don't need to make someone feel bad. I don't need to judge someone. I don't need to change someone, like like when we were young or even now, like how how offensive does it feel when someone tries to change us? Like it just it feels so like counterproductive. If someone's like, oh, you got to change, man, I don't like this about you. I don't like this about you. I'm not going to be your friend until you change. I'm just like, I mean, the only I think, the only thing that's ever changed anyone in the history is love. And if you can meet people where they're at and you can love them where they're at, they'll find the safety within themselves to be like, all right, I'm ready to change. I'm ready to give up alcohol. I'm ready to give up X, Y and Z, you know, and all of the judgment, all the shame, all the embarrassment. We try to change people. It just doesn't work. It's never worked. I don't think, Oh my god, bro, that's that's uh speaking to me right now, because I feel like I'm still a long way from feeling the best I can about myself, Like I still feel like there's a long way to go there. And one of the reasons is because I see a lot of like codependency that shows up, like whenever there's little patches in like my man or is that happen, I feel like it's because of that. And that's like I heard somebody say codependancy is like a covert attempt at control. And it's like, I always looking at myself and kind of looking around the world. It's like, why do we when it comes to issues that start and are kind of rooted internally, why do we try to control external things to make us feel better about ourselves? And I'm just kind of like that's something I'm chewing on in the mirror right now because I can get on here and say, like, bro, I still feel like I gotta do. I still feel like I got to show up and provide value in some way or otherwise. Like I'm still that kid that's still trying to figure out, like how do I just find my place out here? You know? Yeah, And that's where you know, guys like you, you just seek wisdom right from the older players, from the people who've gone down your road, and you just and you just say, what would you tell your thirty one year old self, And every single one of those old heads they're just like just rely, just like one day at a time, just be ground yourself in gratitude and don't walk over people. And all of these guys man, the wisdom and the Tom Brady's and all those guys. Man, Kobe Bryant's man. You see, like Kobe Bryant like after he retired, man became this like Buddha guru man, like saying stuff like we were all like what And he became so embodied man, and he became so like just I don't know, man. The way he was a dad, the way he was a leader, the way he was an entrepreneur. I think the whole world was just like who is this guy? And like where has he been hiding this wisdom? And all of these successful Kobe Bryant's, Tom Brady's, you know, after they leave the league, they just want to let all these young guys know, like, you know, put your feet on the ground, pray, meditate, journal one day at a time, don't get it, don't get your head full of air, you know. And so yeah, man, that's powerful. But you're aware, Bro. That's the secret to all of it, Bro, is that you're aware. So you're already ninety nine you're ahead of ninety nine percent of the other thirty one year old or men or people in the league because you're aware of what's going on. And awareness is the greatest gift you can have. Like, like, I work a lot with people in divorce and relationships and couples, and I'm always telling women, if your man is aware of his struggles and his patterns or unhealthy habits, you have to like meet him there because most men are so they're just so prideful, you know, right. You know you said it earlier about we have to meet people where they're at. And it reminds me a lot of I say this in yoga in teaching, like let the practice meet you where you're at today. I believe yoga is for everybody, and everybody everybody is different and every day is different. And so to be to know where you're at, you have to be in your body, and to be in your body, you have to connect to your breath. And that's why I think, you know, especially with yoga, you know, one of the main intentions always needs to be self love, so that you're making choices in your practice that are rooted in self love, not because the person next to you is doing some crazy shit, so you know, you think you need to do it right. It's like we have to let the practice and until we can actually meet us where we're at, we're not going to be able to meet anybody else where they're at. So it like always comes back to self and it always comes back to this whole idea of like, you know, loving ourselves. Yeah, oh, yoga, dude, Yoga is the medicine the world needs. Man, it is it is between you and you in the on that mat and like you're if you try to go to yoga so you can get a workout game over, like you're already lost, Yeah, and exactly, and then you're in yoga and you're, yeah, comparing yourself to everyone and you're already lost, and that you and the mat and that's like, I mean, that's what most you teachers, I think, try to say, between you and the mat. But it is uh man, dude, even those yin classes where you're holding one stretch for like ten minutes, Oh man, that's Shit's medicine. I'm thinking about when I first did yoga. How when I did it, everything hurt, every posture, heard, everything move, And now for me, everything feels good. It is the ultimate medicine for me, I would say in my recovery, it is probably the most important part. You know, I came from a recovery background in twelve steps, but I believe the one thing missing in the twelve steps is the mind body connection. It's never addressed that our issues are in our tissues and that the body remembers everything. And it's the twelve steps is so valuable and there's so much freedom in those steps. But that's that shit is in our body still, and so how do we move it? We are how do we Yeah, we move it right? We move energy. We have to move move mindfully and breathe mindfully. I mean, yeah, we listened, dude, We listened to the body. And I think a lot of what I talk a lot about my trauma work is so many people think the brain is in control and the brain is the conductor, when in reality, what science has shown us is that eighty percent of all the information is our body sending information to our brain, and twenty percent is our brain sending it to our body. And so when you think about we spend eighty percent thinking our brain is controlling everything. That's why we don't wake up feel and motivated. That's why we feel insecure. We don't like you know, that's why we're negative because we think this is in control. But when you sit there and you breathe and you pray and you meditate and do yoga, your body actually is like freaking out and there's a trauma right here. And so the biggest thing about trauma is you cannot think your way out of pain. Right So you actually, what I always say, and I'm sure a lot of people say it is you have to feel it to heal it. And so, you know, just being able to go back to that little boy Darren, that you were, you know, when you were a kid, and sit with him and listen to him and be guided by like just him being seen, him being like not feeling like an outcast, you know. And yeah, man, it's it's wild. Why do you think we close our eyes when we meditate and pray? Oh? Man, I think I think our eyes are the biggest distraction to the spiritual realm. I think I think our eyes separate us. It's our eyes are constantly judging people right the skin color, their height, their age, their look. But if you ever if you've ever done this thing, there's this kind of trend happening. I don't know how big of a trend is, but there's dinners you can go on where you're blind the entire dinner and there's like twenty five people in a room. And so before you go into the room, you get blindfolded and it's pitch black dark, and you have dinner with like thirty people, and you talk to people, and you meet people and you have no idea what they look like. And it's the most liberating experience you'll ever have because you were connecting to their essence and to their voice and to the experience much more than your eyes distracting you from the pimple on their face or their hair or what they could do for you, or if they're attractive. And so our eyes and hit with us from looking into the spiritual realm. And so it's very sacred to to to practice praying and meditating and and flowing with your eyes closed. Man, It's it's divine. Even when I don't know if you guys have done plant medicines at all, but even there's even there's there's times when you're on plant medicines and you're you know, it's like daylight out, it's like gorgeous out, and your like eyes are closed and you literally could sit there for like two hours without open your eyes and just be in the most magical place you can imagine. And I think that is just like the essence of of what, yeah, of just what it remembers to disconnect from the distractions. You know, did your two months in the desert with the ego deaths that involve plant medicine or was that a different one? No, No, that there was a little bit of plant medicine in in those ego deaths. Yeah, yeah, for sure, powerful stuff. Darren and I have talked about it, and we when we started this journey, we were two guys that had been sober and not put any substance, if you will, in our systems, and through this process have just found some like had some pretty magical experiences. And yeah, we've talked about it. We've had our guest, a guest, Don bergeron on our show shout out to Don and he and he talked about it. I had done it, and you know, it's one of those This was Buffo the five O DMT, and it was just such a profound experience. And I was doing my best not to should all over Darren and like telling me, should he should go do this right, because it's like so profound and and here's my thing with it, my experience for those that hadn't heard the story, is my intention in doing it was to get closer to God, to have a deeper spiritual connection, because I felt like I was talking the talk but not really like having a like praying, praying and having an actual meaningful conversation to establish a meaningful relationship. So that was my intention. And as I went in through the journey, I basically sat in the presence of God. I didn't see a face, but I felt it and I just started saying I'm safe, I'm safe out loud, and it made me realize my whole life like I felt safe because I was like I was there, like I'm good, like I know where I'm going after, like it's all good and so feeling so held and safe, it made me realize everything I've done, caring what other people think and validation was all for safety. So this idea of safety, and it opened up my eyes to women and how they can you know, they walk out to their car at ten at PM and they don't feel safe. We don't even think about that. So that was like so profound for me, Like that was the experience for me, and it basically told me that everything's gonna be okay and I'm enough, like it's fine, so you can't unsee that. So that was my experience. For those that hadn't heard it, Amen, man, Yeah, like most of us, most of our addictions, all of them, I would say, come from wanting to numb our mind right or numb our emotions even, and so a lot of us are in fight or flight. So we're traumatized as kids, and there's moments where like our parents are yelling, or we're in a car accident, or we're picked on at school, and then we just live our entire life unaligned from our nervous system. And so when we discovered cannabis or alcohol or pornography, we just fucking eat that shit up because it's it's letting us, it's letting us numb the insecurities and the emotions, and so we go as far as we can down that rabbit hole. And then one day we're fucking exhausted and we're like, Okay, well, I'm so numb that I can't even feel the positive sides of life. I can't actually feel joy or love or freedom because I've been my nervous system's been on the line for so long. And that's a lot of times where people start doing the work, start asking the questions, start feeling the emotions, and plant medicines. Like you said, it helps you feel safe, because your nervous system can't heal. You can't heal trauma unless you first feel safe inside your body. So once this little boy inside of you feels safe, because he's a little five year old boy, right, so he's fucking terrified. That's the reason he's numbing himself and surrounding himself with muscles and money and sex and fucking everything else, and so he's terrified. So then the boy feels safe to come out of that like fucking you know, dark closet and just be like okay, it's safe. And then your soul is like, yeah, you can come out. And then the boys like, am I allowed to cry? And it's like, yeah, you can cry. You can cry five year old dren you know or whatever that is, you know. And then am I allowed to dance? Yeah? You can dance? Am I allowed to like be myself? Can I be Goofy? Yeah? You could be Goofy. You could play if you want. And this five year old, the first time in almost his entire life, once into unless you you know, before he was a kid, can play again and can laugh and can dance and can be goofy. And uh, that's like the journey back home. That's that's what the journey is. I'm curious what you would say to somebody that maybe is because this was me actually, so I'm curious what you would say somebody maybe in sobriety that that is like never experienced plant medicine and as actually like questioning maybe Darren and I sobriety for experience going through this process, this healing journey. What would you say to those people, man, same thing I would say to a lot of these Christians, man. A lot of Christians are or religious people or spirit or conservatives. They are just they think it's a drug. That's what they've been told. That's what it's been labeled. They think plant medicines. That's the that's the narrative culture has portrayed. And I thought that for my whole life too. I didn't try any drugs pretty much until I was thirty years old, and the you know, mushrooms and during COVID and uh, because I know I have an addictive personality and so I knew whatever I danced with I'd be all in. And so so yeah, I was about thirty years old. COVID happened March twenty twenty. I went into the desert with my friends. Same thing. I was like, all right, this is either going to get me closer to God or not, and I'll never have to do it again if it doesn't, and if it does, then that's dope. And it got me the closest to God I've ever felt, And I mean you can get close, you can get pretty, you can get extremely close to God without it, for sure, but there's another level of your mind finally detaching from your soul, and you're in the present moment. Time doesn't exist right when you're on the plant medicine, and so you literally sit in the presence. I got satin rivers. Man just butt naked in a river with Jesus, and I'm like, sitting in this river. It's like full moon dark and me and Jesus are talking for like two hours. But time doesn't exist, and so two hours in a river seems crazy to someone. But I'm just you're separated from time for the first time I'm maybe in your life. So yeah, plant medicines. I think the bad rep is a bad trip, which bad trips don't actually exist. The only time someone would have a bad trip is if they are suppressing whatever is supposed to come up. And so basically, if you're at a if you're at a party, if you're at a concert and there's intense people around, or you're at a Halloween party and you're on a medicine like that, of course you're going to have a bad trip because you don't know the energy that's around you. You don't know, like can you imagine at a concert and you're trying to forgive your dad and you're just like, wait, Dad, I don't want to forgive you right now, like I'm trying to dance. And so that is what a bad trip is. It's you trying to suppress and control the emotion that needs to come up. And so I would just say to people, be open hearted, open minded that this medicine is the cleanest medicine that there is in the world, like most pharmaceuticals. Obviously we know that route and other dm teas, and you know, there's the mbma's, the ketamines. There's so many therapies out there that have now been proven in science. But I would say people open I mean, nowadays there's documentaries on Netflix and Amazon. You could watch millions of films on like how incredible mushrooms are and MDMA and psilocybin, all that stuff. I've heard you also say how our reality is created in two different things. It's attention and intention. So you know, it's always our awareness. You talked about this earlier. Awareness is the first step in creating any kind of change. It's important to have awareness. It's also not it's hard work when you're aware too, when you wake up to things like not everything's easy to do because too much that's given comes great responsibility. There's like a knowing. I'm very confident that us three have probably been called like to do the work, whatever that work is in our families, right to break to cycles. And I think that's why we're here. But for you, you know, you said, like your awareness about what's going on around you and then your intention to actually do something about it, that was like fire. So can you elaborate on that? Yeah? Man, I just for me, I just try to simplify this world and this perspective for people. I think we get so caught up in big words and books and there's so much to Like we think that the cerebral way is the way to enlightenment or I don't know, like some sort of like we're the smarter you are. We like like we we idolize Albert Einstein, right, Like we're like Albert Einstein the smartest man alive. Like we idolize these brilliant minds when reality, the people we actually idolize are embodied people the Jesus, the mlk's the gandhis people who actually didn't need to be like, didn't need to flaunt, you know, in certain ways. And so yeah, I just try to I just try to simplify things. So when I say, like, your reality is two things, your awareness and your your intention and your attention and basically your attention to and so that way you don't judge people. So your attention to what's going on and your intention to do something about it. So like what I always use as the reference is you're in high school and you're hanging out with your friends and one day you see a kid eating alone. That's your attention. So you're like, oh, that kid's eating alone, all right, well, and then you're gonna keep eating. And then one day you go, damn, that kid's eating alone. I guess I could invite him over here. I can go eat with him. That's your intention. And then that is where you find your purpose. Your purpose isn't you embody your purpose? And so your attention, oh that car is broken down, Well, I got an hour to kill. I could probably pull over and help that car. That is where you find your purpose. Your purpose isn't some sort of grandiose thing. It's actually just you embodying a person that's attention and intentional, and that's the formula of purpose and everyone's to seek their purpose of Like, am I supposed to change the world? And it's like, no, You're supposed to serve the people in front of you, whoever it is, if it's the person that coffee station or the gas station, the coffee shop, You're just supposed to embody a presence of love and action, you know. Yeah, I mean it makes perfect sense. There's I felt there's really no true fulfilling life without purpose. And I mean I feel like just with comeback stories like Donnie and I, a story that there was no purpose realized or stepped into without some level of pain, like things along the way that had us in a place of brokenness, hopelessness figuring out just like what is going on? Like there's got to be more than this. And I see I've seen you talk about like twenty thirteen was a tough year for you. Could you describe to the people that are listening why that why it was tough and maybe just the experience that you gained from that year for me? Yes, Oh okay, I thought you were talking about Donnie. I didn't know you knew about my twenty thirteen you're talking to me, Yes, I'm talking about about my dad passing away. Yeah, oh wow, Okay, I mean I didn't know you guys. I didn't know you guys knew that. Yeah. Uh yeah man? How yeah you said it. Your pain is your purpose. If anyone's searching for what their purpose is in life, you just have to go to what hurts your heart the most. And because I didn't fit in most of my life, because I never felt like I belonged, I've spent the second half of my life making sure no one ever has to feel like they don't fit in. So I used to throw events in La and I remember I used to announce on the events like no cool people allowed. Like I was like, yo, if you're too cool, don't come, you know. I was like, I was like, yo, I want to make sure when I host an event, I want to make sure everyone feels fully seen and celebrated and heard. Because I've been to a million events where I feel invisible and I feel like I want to just go home, you know. And so that's my pain, man, And then my pain of losing my dad, and you know, turning that into my purpose. Man. Like I said, after I lost my dad, I started mentoring inner city kids in Denver, and I would say eighty ninety percent of all my kids that I mentored for six years never had dads. And so I like became a brother figure or even like a father figured to a lot of my high school kids and ended up getting my inner city kids passports, took them around the world, like, got them cameras. Like it's like they're like my They're like my little brothers for life. It's been a decade now I just got the phone with one of them. But uh but yeah, man, so you just you got to figure out what breaks your heart more than anything. And and you don't need to judge people. You don't need to shame people like I don't need to convince people like if your if your passion is climate change or saving the animals, or helping inner city kids, or helping homeless people or helping kids in Africa get an education, you just got to choose one or choose something, and then you just have to stay in your lane. I'm not going to try to convince you to care more about homeless people than kids in Africa. You know what I'm saying, It's not a competition. And I think a lot of people are trying to force people to care just as much as they care, and I think that negates the whole purpose of purpose, right that we need to stay in our lane and we need to we all need each other. And yeah, man, so my whole, my whole movement, and like my kind of my programs called pursuing purpose because we have the idea of pursuit of happiness in America. And I realized when people are pursuing purpose, all of the knobs that are like depression, anxiety, all these things that are like struggling with all of your knobs get turned down when you're in alignment with your purpose because it's not about you. And so you're just kind of like, oh man, this life isn't even about me. I'm so stressed and anxious and overwhelmed and depressed about me. But then you go help someone and you're like, man, I don't even care what I look like right now. I'm just like helping someone that doesn't have a meal to eat tonight. I'm helping a kid in Africa that just wants to learn how to read. I'm helping plant trees for the better world for tomorrow. And it's like you don't even care what you look like. You don't even care why much money's in your bank account, you don't care how many followers you have. When you're in alignment with your purpose, everything of your worries disappears. So well said, I've always talked about how purpose is. Your purpose isn't static, it's dynamic, right, It's fluid. It's not like we declare this purpose statement. So I always said, like that word discover, right, discover is to take the cover off, to discover. Your purpose is what's been in there all along. It's not something outside of us, right, It's like everything we'll ever need is already inside of us. And I've heard you say it in the beginning. It's like we don't need more, we need less. And so our work every day is to chip away at all the shit that's in the way. You know, you talk about the work because the work teaches us that what's in the way is the way. Right, It's like that the center of the wound is it's where our freedom lies. And like it's cool because us three and that clip of you sharing about your dad was the one that I saw that you know, you came across my feed and that's what connected us. So you talk about like just how beautiful it is and being able to carry the message. And people can say whatever they want about social media, but if you can and I'm not saying I can, but like, if you can manage it the right way and get your algorithms in check, you get to like listen to people like you every day and it's dude, it's just like you do this so well. It's been cool to connect with you. Thanks man. Yeah, I mean you guys both know this. Vulnerability is the way vulnerability is the is the medicine the world needs because when you're vulnerable, like like I always say, like our passions can connect us, like oh you like travel, you like football, that connects us. But our pain is what bonds us. It's our adhesive And so the moment you say that you didn't fit in when you were a kid, or the moment you say you've lost your dad or whatever it is, we are immediately adhesive, bonded to where like I don't care who you voted for, how much money is in your bank account, what car you drive. I don't give a shit about any of that stuff. I just you lost your dad too. I'm like, oh man, we're already connected. And so the sooner we can become vulnerable with our audience with people like I can make these videos that are like, you know, maybe inspiring or cool or helpful about trauma or like educational. I can make educational, inspiring videos. But man, the moment I'm like sharing about losing my dad or being homeless or like all these things, the followers turn to like family, and people go from like, oh man, I used to follow you because of your content. Now like I'm praying with you and for you, and we're connected. And that's the level of commitment that we need to with each other right now because everything else is vanilla. Everything else is like fickle to where like our followers will leave us tomorrow if we say the wrong thing, you know. And so what we're looking for is we're looking to magnetize soul family like you guys, like soul brothers, you know, and what you guys are doing in the industry of like men talking about this stuff, like dude, you guys are man, you guys are paving the way dude, it's wild to think that, you know, so many men in your guys' fields are doing conversations about like who the best basketball player in the world is, which is cool. I love that shit too, but like you guys are like, no, no, let's talk about childhood and plan medicines and healing and masculinity. Like, dude, that shit it's going to change the world. Man, it's wild. Well you've said it's like heal the boy and the man will appear. Right, what do you feel like for you? I've heard you also say, like the question that us men can start with asking ourselves or having somebody that we trust ask us is is when did you feel unsafe or unseen? Right? Can we talk about that? I've heard you. I've heard you use that as an access point, and I'm like, man, so beautiful, Like I'm using that one for every man that comes to anything that I do, because it's beautiful. Man. Yeah, man, I mean it's really simple. Like I said, it's a lot simpler than we make it seem when it comes to who people are. And you know, one of the videos I made I talk about one of the first questions I ask people when I first meet them or just one of these uncomfortable questions. I aske like, yeah, when's last time you cried? And I've been doing this for like ten years. And I'll be at events. I'll be at like these big events in LA and I'll you know people, I'll be like, yoh, one's last time you cried, like right when I met them, And it just opens up this portal of conversation of someone being like, oh, man, I was probably six years old when my dog died, and you're like, WHOA, twenty years you even cried. And some people are like when I woke up this morning, You're like, WHOA, what's going on? And at the end of the day, humans want to just like emotionally connect. We're emotional beings before we are cerebral beings. I think a lot of people think we're very ebel beings because we've succeeded in technology. But look at kids like my son is one hundred percent pure emotion. Like when he is sad, he is crying. When he's happy, he's happy when he's he's the most present. He's in the present moment at all times. He doesn't know tomorrow exists, and so someday teachers start to tell him about homework, and then tomorrow exists, and then he someday someone goes, oh, you look weird, and then he goes in the mirror and he's like, wait, I look different. And then some day someone's like, you can't dance, and then he's like, wait, I can't dance. I'm the best dancer in the world, I thought. And so every moment in the childhood, they are told they can't sing, or they can't dance, or they look different, or they're not smart because they didn't get an A plus. And so every human, all you have to do is go back to those moments when they first felt like they had to dim their light or they had to act a certain way or put on a character, you know. And so if you know for a fact every human has that, all you have to do connected that right away and in different ways with questions or anything like that. But you know, when I talk to couples about breakups, a lot of the person going through a divorce or a breakup, they're so they're telling me so much about what the person has done and what they're doing, and I'm just like, yoyo, I get it, I get it. They did, X, Y, and Z. But it has nothing to do with them nothing. It has everything to do with how you are feeling, what you were experiencing, how you allowed that person in your life, and so you have to take that projection and bring it all to yourself. How is this a gift because you called that person in your life even if they cheated on you? And how are you experiencing them cheating on you? Because You're not going to change my opinion about them. I'm not here, We're not here to talk shit about them. But how do you feel? What does that make you feel? That they cheated on you? And you're like, oh, it makes me feel really like pissed and sad. Why is that odd? Because when I was young, this girl that I like cheated on you know what I'm saying, and you just and it all comes back to the personal experience. And so everything that makes us mad or triggers us is just showing us something that makes that word mad about, you know, or that we have an emotion that haven't haven't been met yet. I remember, yeah, I remember reading somewhere relatively recently. It's like the present moment, like the moment isn't bothering you. You're bothering yourself about the moment. Hmmm. Why Just like looking at that, it's like like, yeah, that's it. The theme and a lot of what this conversation around, I think is just it's its ownership and taking personal responsibility for your life and and and to stop stop waiting for the right situation or the right circumstance or waiting for that person to change. Is my old relationship therapist would say, like stop like trying to fix her and fix yourself, like be the change you want to see, like if you would in my then another therapist was like, whatever you're wanting, just go do it, Like stop complaining that you're not getting it, and go do it. And if you believe in karma, what you put out comes back to you, and then if you're putting it out and then you're not getting it back, then that's some valuable information that you have to make decisions. But like you know, I think there's that intention of like why are you doing it? Why are you saying I love you so you can hear it back. So if I don't say it back and you and you say, well you didn't say it back, why did you say it to me in the first place. So it's that intention part, right, Yeah, and even them cheating on you, you know it. Yeah, it all comes back to self. You know. Like my favorite thing about Jesus is I believe Jesus was the best at asking questions and listening to people. That Jesus asked more questions than he spoke. And so like, if any human you talk to, if you can get really good at asking questions and listening and I'm not talking like just fucking listening. I'm talking about listening to what they're saying, then you can actually help them get the answers that they need without saying a word, Like you guys know that, And so it's just you know, and that's like what the art of listening is is just like continue to like dole down what you want to say or what you should say, and just listen a little bit deeper, and then you'll just ask another question and then one, and then at the end of that thread, they'll most likely come to the answer, I mean. And it's it's valuable for anybody in any relationship because it's people aren't going to remember what you said, They're going to remember how you made them feel and everybody loves to be heard, and everybody loves to talk about themselves. And I've had to as a teacher, yoga teacher in the beginning, a teacher constantly teaching and instructing, and then about five years into teaching, I started coaching. And it's different. You have to take a step back, and I'm grateful for some training through Coactive Training Institute that they teach you to like the client has the answers within them. Your job is to ask short, powerful questions, you know, and the other saying is like God gave us two ears and one mouth for a reason, you know. Amen. Yeah, man, Yeah, So it's powerful, man, And it's just it's just a lot of it's just a lot of being vulnerable, being honest, you know, being transparent, like having men in your life. You guys have any how'd you guys meet? I was Darren's Uh. Darren was a coaching client of mine, so we had connected and I was familiar with his past and my past was similar on him. You know. He was sharing his story on Hard Knocks on HBO and I was I was watching it and working with athletes back in Phoenix and saw it and saw this dude stepping up and sharing his story on like I did it in a yoga community in my hometown. He did it on you know, for the world to see, and I'm like, I gotta meet this dude. Yeah, and then it just like well connected from there I was twenty nineteen. Yeah, whoa, that's amazing, dude. I love that story. Yeah, that's cool. When we started this, like you know, we are in purpose right now as we speak, because we started this to reach as many people as possible, to remind them that they're not alone. And like, you know, when people like might project their image of what a man is or like you know, a football player Darren with his helmet on, right, and like we're changing the language of what it really what I believe it feels it sounds like to talk like a real man and talk about these things and bring people on and like a Michael Phelps or a Darren or people that think they have all their shit together and they come in and they're talking about their real life mental health struggles that they're still having, and so that bankrupts the story for the person sitting there thinking their problems are unique or that they're alone and that's what we're here to tell you that you're not alone. Yeah. I mean I think that just bringing that story back up kind of ties everything together, right because through me being vulnerable and making that choice that one time ultimately led me to my purpose. Wow. And like and you look at the power of like small individual choices, Like there was people with the Raiders at that time that were as I was going to do this interview portion, I was just going there to talk and just keep it real about where I had been, and there are people like, you know, you don't have to do this, you don't have to share, and I was just kind of like a, I mean, I'm not like that, that fear and that just that weight of just like that shame wasn't there anymore. So I just went in there and talked and didn't think anything of it. And then next thing, you know, it's just like I checked Instagram one day and shit, my shit is flooded with people just like like you. Like I thought about just taking the rest of the pills in this bottle and ending it, but I heard you say what you said, and now I want to shift. Now I want to pivot, And it's just like whoa I wasn't even looking for this, but just for somebody that's listening, Like your decision to be vulnerable. Who knows what type of scale it may be on or the ultimate impact it may have metric wise, whatever it may be. Like, the choice you make to be vulnerable is going to impact somebody somewhere in your world and your spere of influence in a way you can't even imagine. So just when it comes to making that choice, we hope that you will just show who you really are, the scars, the wounds, all of that, man, Because it doesn't it doesn't get easier, but you'll start to see that your life means that much more to you when you do it. Mm wow, man, man, so good. I feel like we could go all day long with this and BC Man, I feel like we're going to have to have you on multiple times, probably at least once once a season for sure, because it's when I heard you talking. I mean, you're you're just speaking everything that we talk about, and like I said in the intro, I think you just say it in a way that, yeah, your storytelling ability, just like you your presence on camera and you're hearing your voice. I mean I believe God speaks to the mouths of other people, like that's where I hear it, and I believe that I can hear and see God through TikTok and you know, and it's beautiful to to have those moments where it's just like this, this dude has something that I want. And that's what I think my superpower maybe has been when somebody has something that I want. Not the material shit. I'm talking about the inner stuff, the inner piece and the calm, confidence and the knowing. I just get close to him and you know, proximity is power. So here we are. Yeah. Yeah, I mean that's your wisdom, bro. I mean, dude, if young people understood what you just said, it's oh, man, dude, you gotta Yeah. A lot of people think the success they're like, man, if I could just get around these wealthy people, I could just get this knowledge and this wisdom, and then you're around them and you're like, oh, they've just been like playing the system. You're like, oh, these wealthy people are just kind of wealthy because they played the game. Like the system they like they you know, they kind of manipulated the system. And then you kind of go, that's not as cool. But then you get around embodied people man like my mentor and people I've like been mentored by, and you're just like, like, I'll just give a story, like, you know, a quick story about one of my mentors. He's written three New York Prist time selling books. He's not really known like in the social media world because he doesn't have social media that's so much he doesn't care about it. But his name's Tommy Spalding and he writes, he write, He wrote a book about how he teaches CEOs of fortune five hundred companies how to love their employees better. Like that's this guy's level. Like he sits with like these billionaire CEOs and he teaches them how to love people better. And one time we're at this conference and this was like a decade ago, so this was like way before vulnerability and masculinity was even a thing. And we're at this thing he's speaking at and he's one of the keynote speakers, and there's all these businessmen in suits and ties and it's this really you know, massive event, and like I said, this was over a decade ago, and he sees one of his buddies and after everyone's trying to get book signing and pictures with him, and he goes up and he grabs him by the face and just kisses him on each cheek and he like kisses his cheek and he just like his entire ore, like all these people were like around him, and he just and I was like, did that guy just kiss a dude on his cheeks and like around all these other successful businessmen and suiting ties. And I was like, man, I wish I could have that type of masculinity. And he's like he's Italian, you know, like at heart, but he's not you know, it's not for am Italy, but he's like has this Italian heart. But it was just so the essence of what he brought into a room full of business card kind of men, and I was just like, dude, these men are trying to have these firm handshakes and this guy just melted into a five year old seeing his like lifelong best friend kissed him on each cheek and like his aura just surrounded him where all these people were around him and no one else existed. And I remember just being like I was twenty I was I was partly twenty two twenty three, just being like I want whatever that is. I want that. I was like, I want to figure out how to kiss a guy on his cheek in front of one hundred and fifty men. And it's like it's just and it's I don't know, man, it's just embodied. Like I said, dude, tell the audience where they can track you down. What are you doing? What are your offerings? I mean, I feel like you're doing so much and I know there's going to be listeners that are gonna want more of you. So let him know where they can track you down. Oh man, I appreciate that. I mean, right now, it's just my social media is my name BC Serna, and I just had another son. I have two kids. I have a one year old and a four month year old. Crazy but yeah, man, so I'm not doing too much right now. I'm doing someone on one like mentorships, some coaching, a little bit of like potentially a men's retreat in January, so people just stay tuned. But right now, man, I'm just doing everything I can to just like spend as much quality time with my two sons. I never had being a dad on my vision board, but I knew I wanted to someday. But my purpose was always my message or my focus, my compass. And then when I was in the desert, this is the last story I'll tell. I know you guys are trying to wrap up, but I'm in the desert and one night I am sitting there and I'm not on any medicines, but the moon comes up over this mountain range and it's this pink moon. It's the biggest moon I've ever seen. And I see it and like, I just kind of start crying and get emotional, and it was weird. I never cried at the moon before. I didn't even think that was a thing. And I like went through this feminine portal of the moon, if that makes sense, and it was like the Holy Spirit, and I don't know, there's this term in the Christian called the Holy Spirit, and it's like I realized the Holy Spirit was feminine, and I realized that all of us men came through a feminine portal. We came through our mom's feminine portal to get here. And so I went through this moon, this full moon, this feminine portal, and I started crying for all the feminine women that have changed my life, and like my mom my, sister, my grandma, and these women that i've also like women that I didn't honor in a way that like was very honorable in my life. And so I cried on behalf of just like asking for forgiveness for them. And then God was just like, hey, idiot, if it's not your best friend, who else would it be. And at the time, Esa was my best friend, my partner, and la Is I mean, Issa was my best friend and she's beautiful, but like la is La, I was like I loved dating women in la and I was still getting over a heartbreak. And so God's like, hey, idiot, if it's not your best friend, who else would it be? And I was like that makes sense? So I uh so I called Isa. She was in Lebanon, that's where she's from, and she moved into my van with me, and we lived in my van for a year and then had a baby, and then I built out a school bus and then we lived in a school bus, and then we had a second baby, and so this is our first house we've ever had in North Carolina. And we went from a living in a van starting our relationship, living in a van for a year and then living in a tiny home and then a school bus and for two months we've had our first house. So it's been it's been a journey. Yeah, man, that's wild. We got yeah, we we just barely tapped into your your story and all these other cool things you're doing and have done because you got just so much good quality wisdom. So yeah, we'll dude, we'll definitely have you back on. But thank you, thank you for being here, thank you for making time. I'm so grateful that we've connected, and I trust that our connection, the three of us, will only build from here. Hey, man, you know I'm praying for you guys, and I'm so honored to be on this show with you guys. I'm so honored to be in your guys's presence. And man, I just can't imagine all the young boys listening to you guys, all the young men listening to you guys and just finding hope, finding peace, finding clarity, and just hopefully feeling like their feet can touch the ground and just feeling like they're not alone. So I just I celebrate you guys, and I just can't think you guys enough. Appreciate you. Appreciate you brother man Man Morty Morty. You know, bro, like this is the true work. Like that you're what you're doing is helping men open their eyes to what they don't even know what they want, but deep down they truly will want one day and know that will be something that will fill that void within them. Bro. So for that man, big time salute, Bro, Thank you, thank you for your time. Man. Thanks guys, praying for you, guys, Appreciate you all. All Right, We're out, everybody, Suer peace. Comeback Stories is a production of Inflection Network and iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.