Zac Clark's Comeback Story

00:00:10 Speaker 1: Welcome everybody. Thank you guys for being here. First and foremost, that was an amazing practice. Donnie and I we co host a podcast called Comeback Stories. We really try to have real conversations. You know, Donnie and I both had a lot of things happened in our lives through our recovery journeys, and we found that just by being vulnerable every single day, wherever we go, with whoever we're with, is how we've been able to establish freedom in our lives and maintain it. So this is the platform we try to carry that too, and just to have you know, conversations you may not hear normal people having, but it's a conversation that really allow you to form deeper bonds. So I'm excited to share this platform with Donnie, and we've got an amazing guests exact here today, So let's get to it. Let's do it. I love you guys, a lot special theories up here, all right. So we are here with Zach Clark, founder of Release Recovery and Release Recovery Foundation, also the winner of ABC's Bachelorette, where he was one of the most notable reality TV stars to share his message of sobriety on national television. But we're glad to happy er me. I don't know what just happened in that prayer and meditation, but I'm feeling everything. So let's do this. I'm grateful to be here, all right. We dive right in. We want to know what was it like for you growing up? So you know, for me, I could sit here and tell you that things were hard, but they weren't, you know, like I have a very loving family. I'm one, I'm one of five kids, and my parents are still very much in love today. And you know, my existence growing up was I really like I measured who I was as a human being on how I was like doing on the sports field and what my old man kind of like I thought I was doing on the sports field, you know, and so like that for me was a big piece of my growing up, and I never really vocalized that. But if you looked at the Clark household from the outside looking in, like everything everything was cool. You know, we had the white pick offense. And I grew up in South Jersey, and you know, I went to a really good public school and I never really wanted for anything, you know, Like I was probably the kid on the team. Like with the new Bat, you know that everyone was using and like, so I think that's a good way to kind of kind of put it right, to bring you into that, to that upbringing that I have. But all that said doesn't mean that I didn't have my ship, my stuff going on. So I's fascinated by that because that's obviously during and I came up with these questions and the first couple of podcasts, the first one was Darren telling his story and the second one was mine. And growing up for Darren was confusing, and if you've heard that story, mine was also easy, right, confusing, easy, easy, But yet we somehow all landed in a in a dark place at some point in our lives. I will say this, like when I when I showed up in New York City ten years ago, like, and I'll get into this, like I got sober and I showed up in New York City. There was an element of culture shock, right, because I grew up in this white Anglo Saxon Protestant town where like the parents would go to the country club, you know, on Friday night, and the kids would go drink on the eighth hole of the country club, you know, like or or one of the houses where the parents were at, and there was there was no diversity, there was no culture, there was no introduction to like everything else set was going on in the world. I don't I don't blame my family. I don't blame my upbringing. I don't blame anyone for that other than that's just like the hand I was dealt. But I get it, and I understand why people end up being the way they are in this world because some times it's just that lack of education or knowledge, right, like this whole idea that knowledge is power. So that was definitely adjustment as I like pushed through in my life. Can you talk about it. Did you have an early memory of pain? Pain? Huh? I don't. I mean I can tell you this, Like I know growing up that I was a very emotional kid, and I still am very emotional today. Like I feel stuff on a level that like can be really uncomfortable. And I don't know if I can point to pain, but I remember, I don't know if anyone relates with this, but like I love my parents so much and I was always so scared of death growing up, Like that was a thing that just like crippled me for whatever reason, Like what happens after we leave this planet? Now? I remember like when my mom would tuck me in at like twelve, thirty fourteen years old, like I would have these crazy thoughts of all right, I want to live to be thirty, and then I would to die because I don't want to see my parents thought, I don't want to see anyone around me die. I don't want to know what happened. Like it was this whole crazy so like it wasn't pain, but it was like these really intense thoughts of of like a little kid, I don't think should be having the other pain that I felt is you know, I would say, like as it relates to being an athlete on the field, I and it ended up like propelling me forward, but growing up, like I hit puberty late, right, so like I was always the smallest kid. Yeah, we're at the console last night. This dude is like I'm like staying behind him, like, um, I hit you, and so like I was, I always felt like I had to figure stuff out, and like on the athletics field, like there was always this element of this chip on my shoulder, like I knew everyone was a little bit better than me, but I'm going to figure out a way, and that would carry into my drug use down down the line because I always figured it out. I always got what I needed. Who is your first real teacher growing up? So I I look at my childhood and you know, there's no like my parents have always been stilled to this day continue to be my greatest teacher, just because I feel like like I was never grounded, I was never in trouble, but they taught me the difference between right and wrong. You know, from a very early age. My dad taught me, like, you know, don't go out to eat at a restaurant if you can't afford the twenty percent tip, to take care of the personal waving on it. You know, like these little things that he started to like drop into my life and I saw him, you know, like there was a period of time like right before I started really remembering stuff that that the family was kind of like my dad did go into bankruptcy and there were like some things going on that I knew behind the scenes, my parents were kind of masking that said. Like I like I said, like I never wanted for anything, but he taught me about like grit and perseverance and pushing forward. And so I really I revered my father, and then my mother was just and still is the best. I mean, I like, my mom picked up golf recently in like the last three or four years, and I love golf, and I've been golfing with her, and it's being out there on a golf course with my mother has been one of the greatest gifts I've I've been given, you know, because I just learned so much from her, and even to this day, she's a teacher. Like as a woman who's you know, sixty whatever years old having the you know, courage to pick up a golf gloff club and started playing as it was amazing. She doesn't even know that, right, And then I look at I look at some of like, you know, my coaches. My coach is growing up and my high school football all coach was you know, a high school football coach. You know, he was in your face. I mean he was in your face, but every practice would kind of like end with a prayer, and he really just wanted to teach us to be men. I didn't understand that at the time. I thought he just wanted to win. Game, but he had been around long enough and to know that, like win or lose, his role was to make me a better person. And to this day, I mean, I love I love being taught, Like I mean, that's why I reached out to you. I needed I got to a place in my life where I needed I wanted to level up again, you know, so having that open mindedness, but yeah, I love coaches. I love that course. Um, I'd love for you to take us through from like the beginning of your using journey and what that looked like for because anybody doesn't really know my story. I started using I was like fifteen, and it felt like my life got better when I was using. And then like you look at it from like you zoom out, It's like I went to a great college and then I went to the NFL. It's just like all these things looked great, but really it was like my inner world and like my character and my integrity were just like going down, like in verse of where like my professional career and all these things that people celebrated was going great. So like could you like parallel like what your life was looking like, but while also like what you're using was maybe doing to you at the same time. Yeah, yeah, I'll dumb it down. I mean I typically take a long time to tell the story, but I'll and I just want to say, like I just want to vocalize just sitting up here with you and being here with you guys. I just every time I'm around specifically Madden that are doing the deal and like staying sober on a deal, Like sober people are the best, you know, And like we went to this concert last night, right and we and a couple of our friends that we met showed up, which is just amazing in itself. But you know, we at eleven o'clock on a Friday night, We're able to like spark these like awesome conversations with people that we just met, and like that to me is what has been one of the biggest gifts, Like just this connection and like being here with you Donnie and Darren, Like it's it's crazy, but no, yeah, I mean, I like I said, like I started, I remember my first drink vividly because it was it was at a Christmas party and you know kind of like kind of like the story goes, like the older guys handed me this beer and I drank it and I went back to the Christmas party where all the parents were hanging out. My mom and dad were like, where were you at? And like, I lied about where I was at. What were you doing? I lied, you know, And that was the moment at like fourteen fifteen years or whatever it was, and I learned how to lie. And what was validated by me from the world is that the next morning I woke up and Christmas happened, and I opened gifts and no one figured anything out. And I was like, it's like this light bulb went off. I was like, Oh, I can tell people whatever I want and they're just gonna believe me so as much as mine. And we got into this a little bit last night about like the what for me doesn't matter. I mean, it started with a drink and ended up with a needle in my arm, and what happened in between was crazy. But I always like to say, it's not so much about the substance, it's about what was going on with me. And so, you know, I took that first drink and I fell in love with that party life, you know, And I fell in love with the way that alcohol made me feel. In a way that alcohol allowed me to kind of leave this crazy mind and this like hole in the soul that I had come to familiar with even at a at a young age. And so you know what it looked like was like high school, right I was. I was my superlative in the yearbook, was life of the party, and I wore that shot you know. I mean like I was the guy like halm the kegs out to the woods and like you know, making everyone your shirt off, shotguns and belting out classic rock songs and like the biggest bonfire. It was like that age to confused existence, and I was like, this is like, this is why we're all on this planet. I am like I figured it out, and you know, then I showed up at college and I went I had a choice. Like going into college, it was like you can go and you can play baseball at a lower level for like a smaller Division three school, which is what I ended up doing, where I could go to a university Man and the University of Delaware, and something like I knew something if I went to one of those big schools, like it was game over. Like I wasn't gonna make it cool if I did that. So I go to this small little shout in New York, Pennsylvania, which like is this obscure place. I was just back there for the first time a couple of weeks ago, in like ten years, mind ending. But I started drinking and then I started doing the trouble at that point, right like I found the cooke, I found the adderall I found these things that allowed me to drink longer and stronger than just drinking. But the thing that's important for me to say is like I kept my appearance, so I showed up in practice. I worked hard. I was like the vocal leader of the team, Like I dressed that ship up the way that I thought I had doing it, and it kept working and I'll just never forget. Like my senior year, I was probably black and alley two three times a week, and I didn't even know what a blackout was. Like I thought when people drank, you just drank and you forgot stuff, because that's what happened when you when you drank. And then like from one of my friends, like you know that's not normal, like stop the memory and stuff. After eleven post I really did, that doesn't happen to you. And I was like it was like this moment of like there's something wrong with me, and you know, I'll speed it up. But like I never had consequences. And it wasn't until I met this girl my sophomore year and I ended up marrying her, you know, after we got out of college. And what happened for me was I left college. I thought I was going to play baseball. That didn't work out. I thought I was going to be involved in sports that didn't work out. This like central part of my relationship with my father was taken away from me, right, because like our whole relationship was based around baseball, which was sweet, but at the same time, it's like really sad because there's nothing else that we ever talked about. And I I had a it was Memorial Day weekend and I was packing my car to go to the shore with a bunch of friends. Like this is like the summer after college, and I had not been feeling good. And this just like tells you a little bit about like where I was with my with my youth. Like I kept telling my family that I didn't feel well, and they kept telling me, Zach, you're just hungover, right, So it started to become a part of my identity, Like I would come down the morning I hadn't drank and I was like, I really don't feel well. So I took it upon myself to go get it, to go get an X ray, and I like went to this side of the road X ray place on the way to the Jersey Shore Memorial Day weekend, and this woman came back like with my scan. It was like, yeah, you're sitting right there like you have something growing on your brain. You gotta like you gotta go, and you gotta go now, and I'll never forget, Like what do you mean? And within twelve hours, I'm in surgery getting this tumor cut out the back of my head. And I share that experience and I've never been healthy in my life, Like it ended up not being cancerous. I mean, it was scary. I was in the hospital for you know, like twenty some days or whatever, like occupational therapy, learning to walk, talk to all that stuff again. But the feeling is what's most important. And the feeling I had while I was in that hospital, and which is like something that I've really come to understand in my recovery is that and when people come to me for help because it happens a lot of times. I'm short, Darren for you, like people come to you for help. And I had so much love in that hospital room University of Pen Hospital. I'll never forget people bringing me cheese, steaks and salt pretzels, putting the phillies on, like it was amazing. And I couldn't stop thinking about what I was going to do when I got out of that hospital bed, which was I was going to go drink and drug with permission because now I'm some kind of like hero forget through this thing. So my whole life was this negotiation of like if I do this, I get the party this way, and you know, I don't. I don't have all the datas to tell the story, but basically what ended up happening is I get out of the hospital, I recover, I get on one knee. I proposed to my girlfriend at the time. We had this big party down the Jersey Shore. I remember like turning in the corner to like get married, and like had this moment of like am I about to do? You know? But at that point in my life it was like it would be the what the and then like let's keep moving forward. So I go I go on this honeymoon. I like detox on the honeymoon. It's just it's so insane. We went to like you the Virgin Islands were like I don't even know, but anyway land back in Philly, and the first text message I sent, it's my drug dealing, you know, after like spending a full week detoxing, like and that's what I always said, There's no there was no amount of love or human power that was going to get me sober, Like I had to go through what I had to go through, and I ended up in rehab the first time. And to this like to your point, like the parallel, like I I never once really thought about getting sober because in my life nothing was going wrong. Yeah, And the first consequence came after the first time I went to rehab. My wife at the time now ex wife and one of my angels on this planet. I got high. Five days after I got out of the rehab. He's like, yeah, you're out of here. This party is over. And she meant it, and she held that boundary and she walked out the door and that was the end of that relationship. Like she and she saved my life because then for the next eight months. What happened was between that rehab and the second rehab, think go really gnarly, and I'm not going to go into the stories, but it ended like during that eight months, I had my gallbladder cut out, chasing painkillers. Like my goal bladder was completely fine, Like I went under just to get that thing taken out so I could get three or four more days in the pain pills. The doctor was from my hometown, so he's like you sure, You're like you sure you want to go through this absolutely, you know. And I was able to go back to that doctor like in my recovery and sit them down and be like, dude, I was totally full of shit, like I apologize for you know, like that's the stuff we get to do. But it ended up like alone in camp in New Jersey, sleeping on a cardboard box, not because I had to, but my family loved, like they would have taken my calls, but because I thought that's what I deserved, you know, with a need on my arm and a crack pipe in my mouth. And that's just where it went from me. And at that point the consequences started coming and coming quick. And there's a whole story around how my dad came in the bank, you know, the bank teller called him. He rushed down to the bank. He kind of grabbed my arm and off the rehab I went. And that was August, you know, of twenty eleven. Here I am today with whatever and plus years sober. So that was one of the like that August of two eleven was the darkest time and the parallel what was going on in my life from like this kid who like had it all right too, literally alone hanging out with drug dealers, like trying to turn my next trip. What's just That's what happened, right, And I feel like that's why it's important to talk about like addiction and alcoholism is a disease, right, because a lot of people I feel like it's an old school thing to be like, man, you would stop if you wanted to, or like you have the willpower, you have the strength. But it's really like you hear this, and you hear so many examples of why somebody should stop me, Like why wouldn't they? But it's just craving that develops, and it's like a disease of the mind and the body. It's like somebody can have so many good things going, so many good opportunities, so many good relationships, but still just tear it down. And then eventually it's like, you know, you can talk about from when you start about lying and then you know all the things that you did from getting your gallbladder moved. It's like there's this stench that grows inside you, at least I know for me, where it's just like you don't really fuck with you like you just like you lose that self respect and it just drives you deeper and deeper, and the consequence is just don't hit anymore. Like I've got arrested three times. I've been suspended or kicked off every level of that expert played on um, you know, overdose in my car, off appeals, and it's just like all these things kept happening, kept happening, keep happening. It's just like it was never enough. But it's this disease that's in me that's developing investoring, you know, unless you really, you know, put the world on pause and are able to go to a rehab and take multiple times because I went to outpatient programs and things and I was just like I'm not having this. But eventually you get brought to your knees At some point, I can relate so much to the gallbladder surgery because too many people that don't understand be like, who the hell does that? I did it, I had a surgery, I had some issues going on with my knee, and he's like, I can squeeze you in tomorrow. I'm like done, because that means I'm guaranteed you're going to have bills tomorrow. That's the insanity. That's the power of the disease um and the grip that it can have on you. So to share that it's so important, and for these guys to share it on the platform that they have, I mean, Darren and I started this podcast on a mission to reach as many people as possible to remind them that they're not alone. So when you might hear something in Zach's story or my story or Darren's story, it kind of bankrupts that the story that we're telling ourselves of I'm alone, nobody understands at my rock bottom, that's what I was saying, my understanding of mental health and suicide, and people who are about to make that decision, that's the story they're telling themselves. I'm alone. So as we start this and for you guys to share it on the stage that you have, it's such a beautiful gift to be so real and law and I always say, you're only as sick as your secrets. So it's kind of cool to be able to for you guys to be able to do it on such a large stage. But what do you think for you what was real on that? Like that's where the freedom comes from and like being honest, right, because like and it's funny. I keep going back to this experience. We had this consil last night, Like we we went to this concert that we were hanging out with these these people. After I turned to this one kid and I said, do you party? He's like, naturally yes. I was like that's cool, man, and like there really is no judgment in that question. What I loved about this kid justin that I met is that he was sucking on you know, and like that that is what I've taken from all of this is like so many people lie because they think the world wants him to be a certain pay Yeah, and forum again, I come back to both of you for the stage that you have him to watch how you have given other people permission to do the same, to be in a safe space, you know, and watching Darren and other NFL guys follow him and talk openly about their sobriety, like the stude over here, I feel like I'm this high person because he's humbled, humbled to a false but he's done done amazing things and giving guys permission and now they're they're doing they're doing the same. It's kind of like the lone wolf, the one that has the courage to step out and then who will follow? Well, a lot of players have. And again, I think you're changing the language and changing this whole perception and breaking the stigma of addiction and what it really means. So what's what was the story that you had to stop telling yourself in order to tell your comeback story once I was like sober and comfortable with it. Yeah, like what I would say with the only story of that matters is the one that we tell ourselves. So what was it? Like? What was the the shift for you? I think for me like earlier, and I even think back to when I was in rehab, Like I went to rehab for four and a half months, and I started to see that people love me just for who I was then, because it was it was this whole idea of like I started to tell the truth and people just like, oh, that's cool, you know, Like I started to get this affirmation from the world and like no one was like there was The only judgment taking place was my judgment of myself. And that's what I had to kind of like work past. And then I fully recognize and I acknowledge the fact that like I've even before any like, look, look, I acknowledge the people most people out there know me because I was on the Triality television ship, right, And that's cool, and and I'm fine to lean into that. I also acknowledge and know and have to know that like I am, I am much more than that. And so I was actively telling my story and leaning into my truth well before you know, any any appearance on television. And that's something that I had to get comfortable with really early on, because in recovery, what I've learned is that I don't get to keep any of this unless I'm sharing it given a way to all the people around me. So living this right, I mean, that's what we learned, and it's this life of service and all that shit sounding so cheesy. When I was first getting sober, it's like prayer meditation service. I was like, take take all this bullshit, and like, you know, but I started to do it, and I started to open up, and I started to see people come back like hey man, thank you for doing it, thanks for sharing that. Good to meet you. And I was like, I started filling on my teacup with the good stuff. And so I don't know if I'm really answering your question, but I think like for me, like the shift for me occurred when I really learned and understood that if I'm not if I am not okay, there's two things I understand that I have to be sober. Like I understand that for myself, I'm not going to judge anyone else, but for me, drinking and drugging knows more like that's a fact that I have to swallow and like that's just the way it's faith. And then two, in order to keep my sobriety, and this is where the whole like shift comes in, I understand that I need to be willing and ready to share my experience with someone else who is struggling at any time. And by doing that, I got very comfortable in my own skin. I think that's deep because like that willingness that you talk about, it comes with like a sense of discomfort, Like everything about getting sober and changing my life was uncomfortable. But it's valuable because every experience that's uncomfortable in any kind of fear like, there's no way around it. There's no way to just like and there's no running in the opposite direction from it because it's going to stay there. But if you walk through the things that are uncomfortable or that scare you, or the things that you think you never share with anybody, Once you share those things, going through that is what gives you that liberation, that feeling of like okay, like that weight is off my shoulders. But we don't seek this route of discomfort of everything within our comfort zone and things that we like to do and things that we know how to do, we're going to be stuck in the same place. That's the definition of insanity, right, doing the same ship and thinking that things are going to change. So, how has life been for you post reality show, post bachelor read stepping. I'm kind of fascinated by the idea of maybe being a not a known public figure. Obviously you're doing amazing things in the community, in the recovery world, but like stepping back into that and being recognized, to me, that feels very daunting. So how was it initially? And what do you do today to not give your power away and have boundaries and not take in some of that energy that's probably trying to penetrate your whole energy field. I remember one of my going back to mentors telling me very early on, and I keep like you're gonna get from me, Like the things I believe in is community, like humans dealing sub shoulder to shoulder, whether you're in recovery or not. Like, this room is not all people that are sober. These are all people that chose to be here today for whatever reason. Maybe it was to yoga, maybe it was to get a picture with Darren, Like I don't know why the hell are here, but like they decided to show up. But um, you know, so community and truth and so for me, like one of my mentors early on grabbed me and like look me dead in the eye, you know, like looked me. He's like, Zach, there is one story and that's the truth. One story. You have lived your life your life has happened. That is a pact. There's no like one hundred ten percent, there's no ninety like there's one hundred percent your story, your truth. And so for me, I think I don't think I actually know, like going into that experience, stepping into that environment, a lot of people are like, well, how do you drink? And was everyone drunk? And how do you do that? I'm like, that's just this. They're not even a thought about that, because this is how I live my life. And so coming out of that, like what I have had to do is continue to try and just be my most authentic self. And so like where I've run into where I've gotten resentment, I will say, is like the person that comes up and this happens, and they just want the photo because I'm a piece in their text message chain or their story or like whatever the hell it is, right Like I'm just like I'm a piece of I'll say, like me, they asked for the photo and then they run away. I want to humanize that shit. I want to say, what's your name? What's going on? You know? And I've had to really understand that like that people some people just don't want that and the people that do want to connect and do want to talk about it, Yeah, they'll stick around, and they probably won't even actually ask for the picture because that's not what they're there for, right, And so I think there's a certain level of trust that I've had to develop. I think I've had to tighten my circle a lot. Like I've brought a lot of people in and I've connected with more people, but like my real circle, Like there's a dude Joe here today who's like in my real circle, who knows what time it is with me all day every day. And I have to have a few of those people because I trust I trust him, you know. And that's also been hard, is that, like I've actually seen some people act a certain kind of way that I didn't think that that's who they were, and that's not my shit, you know, And if i want to give my power away to that, then I'm going to be in a jackpot. But that's why I mean, like I always say, right, like Michael Jordan had Phil Jackson, Every great athlete has a coach at some point, and that's why I like get ten years sober, Like I reached out to you and I was like, yo, over like and then how did I get to you? Like? How did I get to? Like fucking social media which can be the devil, but there's also like I choose to seem a good in them and I lean into that. Like people like when you ask them how they met, well, like we met on hinge, you know, and they're like like, I'm like, yo, I've reached out the donny on social media? What's up? Like it's all energetic, you know. I slid into Darren's DM. That's how we met. It's powerful. I sat there, was watching Hard Knocks and when basically Darren came out and shared his story of recovery, was instantly jumped on Instagram and reached out to him and said, hey, I work with athletes where we was working with the Phoenix Suns back home, and I'm like, if you ever need any I got you, Like he reached out. So it's a beautiful thing, shooter, Shoot, yeah, what are you most grateful for today? I mean, that's my sobriety. I mean, that's just it, like, that's everything stems from that. And I remember explaining that to my mother because she took offense to it. You know, She's like, what do you mean. I was like, I was taught that it needs to be the most important thing in my life above anything else, my sobriety. And you know, after that, it's family. And I am so grateful. I work in behavioral healthcare. I see broken family systems. I see absent fathers, absent mothers, I see the adoption. I see the ways of these things affect people, and that that's not my story. So I'm very grateful for that. So my family, my recovery is like right here, sobriety. Then it's my family. And then you know, as you were saying the Lord's Prayer today, you know that'll that that that prayer that is just so beautiful. It's just like I start to get emotional there because it's like this community and humans, like there is a lot good in the world if we look for it. And I say that because that's something I'm grateful for, is this ability to not like negative people driving enough, bro, they just driving enough, because it's like it sucks the energy out of you. And like I do a pretty good job of not talking shit, but like if I'm around someone that's negative, like I'll take that, I'll take the bait and next thing, I know, I'll be like calling someone to scumback, like that's not me. You know, it's crazy. You said that there was a there's a meeting I go see every Thursday. I was talking about and one of the guys came in and he's like, be a thermostat, not a thermometer. And I was like, uh, I thought about for a second. It's like the thermostat dictates the weather, whereas the thermostat just reads the weather, like adapts to the weather. So it's like if you you bring that mindset with you everywhere you go, that positive energy with you everywhere you go instead of like reacting to what's going on in any environment. Her in and I was just kind of like, boom, crazy. But do you have like today, is there like certain like mantras or prayers or like how do you keep yourself grounded and that on a day to day. So my big thing, like you know, if you know me, like it just keep going and so many like I say it without even knowing that I'm saying it, you know, and I've it's just been something I've always said, like it so and like so that was a mantra early on just to keep going, keep going, keep going. It's kind of like that fight down your mouth mouthpiece mentality. You know, It's like I know I'm gonna get knocked on my ass and know that this is not going to be perfect. But if I have the ability and I have this blind faith and I have this belief to keep going, and I do that, most of the time things work out. Like it's never as good as it teams and it's never as bad as it seems. And that's why I need to kind of keep keep pushing forward. So I do. I try to keep as simple with to keep going. You know, my friend over here has me back into my you know, meditation routine, which I'm grateful for, and you know, there's just this real illness that comes, like I see this dude and he's like got the necklaces and the beads, and I'm like, this dude must levitate, right, And the reality is it's like I went on one of his retreats and I've gotten to know Donnie over the pascalp of Monsters, Like he's like, dude, there's totally like three or four days in a a row where I won't meditate or like I'll like it'll be one minute and out the door, and like that's that's okay, because I my mind works like I must do twenty minutes. I must do this, And like you know, I always tell people I've run marathons, right and so like, and I don't do it for time. I do it for the community, and I do it for the filmthropic nature of it, like to raise money and bring people together. But whenever people tell me, like I can't run a marathon like us, you can. Absolute absolutely, It's way more people make it, way more dramatic than you think. And back to the mantress, like if you commit and you just keep going during that, you know, a couple months leading up to it, they'll be days and don't run, and you'll feel bad about it, just like there's days when I don't meditate or whatever it might be that I'll feel bad about it. But I have like every days opportunity to improve on the day before, you know, And like Brick by Brick, I've built this foundation for myself where I know that this whole like keep going mentality and mantra that works for me, And that might be too intense for other people, but that's just what that's what works for me. And so and it's not always easy, man, Like there's some days when I wake up I don't want to get out of bed, or I would count it and liked I'd realized to meet with this part, you know, and then like you take the meeting and it's like the great It's like my old old man talking in business, Like you take every meeting. You never know it's going to come out of it. And that's what my experience. What would you say to somebody maybe in this room or somebody that's listening, that's struggling and they they're stuck, They know they're stuck, but they just don't know what to do about it. What would you tell them this question? I could ask so much man, And and Darren, I'm sure you have some thoughts on it. To know, people you know reach out to you. And so I'm sitting here listening to Darren and I'm thinking like him talking about overdosing and starting using pills at fifteen and being suspended and kicked out, and like you've been kicking it the last day, and I'm like, this is like the sweetest, kindest human I've ever met. And you know, like as much as Darren might want to take credit for that, like that's not him, Like there's something else out here looking out after us. And I had to believe that in order to deal get better. And you know, look like I grew up Presbyterian, like I was a chiefster. I went to church on Christmas and Easter, you know, like that's just the way it was. And so this is not like a religious thing for me. This is spiritful. And so like when someone is struggling, I think it's always important to leave with love. Telling them they should do this or should do that. Usually doesn't work. They'll probably combat that typically of them working with a family that really wants to intervene. It's amazing how many families out there don't have the ability to get the family together because the system is so broken. Sit the person down that they're worried about, and just have an honest, real love conversation with you know, because they think that the person's gonna run or they're gonna do this. And like when you lead with love, most of the times, like the person on the other end of the table is at least gonna hear you out. They might not listen, but they're gonna like it's gonna get inside them somehow. But then like if a young guy comes to me, it's like, you know, like because I'm sure you get this, I get this a lot. It's like, it's not about what I'm saying. It's about people watching the way that I live my life. It's nothing that I'm saying. And so when a young guy comes to me or a young girl comes to me and they say, like, I'm curious about my relationship with drugs and alcohol, I challenge them. I say, like, try to not drink for a week, not drink for two weeks. See where that leads you See what you feel with that stef you can even do it. If you can, then you might want to look a little deeper at your relationship with drugs and alcohol. So that's like the early stage person. That's like kind of like in this exploratory phase, you know, get into therapy, start being honest with people around you. When when the jackpot's already hit, you know, and I and someone's like you know, physically addicted to opiates or Benzo's or you know, blowing in eight ball a coviod day, it's like, all right, this part is over. We gotta like interview, it's a wrap, you're going away, you know, Like so there's kind of like two levels of this thing, but just letting people know. And I've had people reach out to me eighteen months after staying like, you know, they remember it. There's not always going to happen on my watch, and talking about being there for people. What what was we talked about the shift from you no like you basically being on that cardboard box to getting sober. What was the shift of getting sober and building a new life, constructing a new foundation for your life, and then wanting to move into work like release, amazing question. It's just so crazy that I'm sitting here. I walked here today, like I lived right in this neighborhood. This is home, and you're at like so I remember I was. I was in rehab for four and a half months. I was a sick one. They wouldn't let me leave, and I remember at the end, I was really pushing hard to go back to like South Jersey Philly, like do something down there, and my counselor kind of like said to me, what about New York And what I knew about New York at that point in time is that their sports team suck, that a smell bad, that was expensive, and like that it was overcrowded, because that's what my dad is still in my mind. But for some reason, like talk about this higher forest, like I said, let's look at it. So I moved to New York City. And when I tell you, I knew zero people. I knew zero people. I knew nobody. I knew that I had to be sober, and I knew that there was something really interesting around the people that I had met in treatment that like, those were kind of my people. And so the real shift for me happened when I showed up here in New York. I started throwing myself into that community and meeting other people who had this shared journey, you know, and had come out on the other side. And I started to realize, like, you know, I can still play golf, I can still go to concerts, I can still you know, go to games. I can do all the things that I want to do and do it sober. And so once I had that like in my pocket, I also knew that I loved helping people, you know, And so I went and I found a job in behavioral healthcare for the first five years year in New York. And then five years ago, like I doubled down and I bet on myself and I said, let's do this thing. You know, we started Release Recovery, which is like what I describe as a full service addiction recovery and mental health organization. Right We provide transitional living here in the city up in Westchester, and then we also do a lot of that work, that intervention work, that silver coaching, that companionship. Like this dude Mario in the back and the jacket, like he's taken He's taken more dudes to men and women to treatment than anyone I've ever met. I mean, this guy is a road dog. And that's like he's one of those people I talk about, right, like these special people that you beat and they're on the safe wavelength in you because like they might like nice things and like like having fun, but at the end of the day, the most important thing to us is to help others. And so we've been able to, you know, create a pretty a pretty cool business. And I look around this room and there's people that like I'm not going to out you don't worry, but like come through our program and they're like still showing up and like that's the stuff dude, that I'm not like a quip to even think about. I get too choked up. And so like, um, it's been an awesome five years. And then we started the nonprofit which basically we're raising money and like I do again, like I knowledge the whole thing with like being on tell it, like it has really helped with that, right, Like that's been one of the because we raised like a million bucks last year and we sent we spent, we sent like, you know, forty some people to treatment. You know, we started their recovery journey. And you know it's like that whole idea of like the greatest gift is in the giving. And I was telling you last night there and it doesn't mean that, like I don't get fried out being around alcoholics and sick people all the time. It's like too much sometimes, but that's just the way it is. Who would you say, is the one person that gets your comeback story shout out, we know we can't do this alone. Who's the one for you? What do you mean is that one person that's always been in your corner, always had your back no matter what who comes up I mean it's family for me, man, Like you know, I just think, do that one rocket bullshit to my parents, you know for sure? And then uh, you know, like my brother Matt, he he's five years older than me, and he like he hung in there, and I'll never forget, like my my niece tailor never seen me loaded, like going niece or nephew that will, Like I have an older niece that's you know, that was around when I was getting sucked up. But like so my my nephew Jack, I remember, I'll never forget like being in my my my sister in law's giving birth to Jack and I'm down the hall and ripping oxypot, you know, in the backroom. And you know, but then like all my nieces and nephews have that, none of them's gonna be high, you know, or drunk, which is like such a gift. The reason I say that is because like my brother knows that, you know, like he knows that I you know, drove his like pregnant wife around high. But he knows that, like you know, he knows that. And this whole idea and like we talk about it a lot Downie is like a forgiveness, you know, and there's like, like one of the things I'm working on right now is like being able to forgive in a way that doesn't mean I have to like take like bring that person back in my letter like whatever, but just like forgive right and be okay. But yeah, my parents, my mom and dad are special humans. My dad just turned eighty. We like him out to the Indy five hundred and it was just like this unbelievable weekend. And the guy is just like the jumpyard dog. You know, the guy's not stopping boards, light and chicken wings for eighty years, like that's the diet. And then my mom's like, you know, she's got the biggest heart. She's still selfless, and I just wish that like sometimes she would, she would take some of what she gives away from herself. So I can't even roll down to one in those three people. Yeah, thanks man. Well, it's been an honor, the privilege and a blessing to hear your story and and for you to ultimately create this space for us and Darren could Darren and I could just come in and do our things. So I just want to acknowledge you for the human that you are and how you're showing up in the world, and I feel like we haven't known each other long, but besties for life. For sure, You're much more than the winner of the bastelor in bro Like, seriously, you're a good man dog. It's been honored to meet you. Hang around. He's leading. I appreciate you, guys, and I just gotta like, I gotta say it back to you guys, like I really I feel very comfortable up here. I feel very proud, you know, being amongst you tube, because you know, I'll say it just like like you know, we had the balls to like step out and be like okay, not being okay and like talking about whatever it is it's going on, and that's not something like Debbie down or depressing shit, Like make no mistake about it. I would say, like, we're living pretty good right now. Yeah, I got no place. Thanks guys. Appreciate you guys. What's up? Comeback stories, family, It's Donnie dropping in here. So did you know that Darren and E's relationships started by me being his personal development, mindfulness and mindset coach. I want to let you know about both my one on one coaching program to Shift and my group mastermind elevate your purpose. These coaching programs are specifically designed for people who are ready to take the next step in their purpose and level up their career, personal finances, and have more connected, deep and meaningful relationships. My gift and part of my purpose is to help others take that next step in leveling up their lives so that they can have a greater impact on the lives of others, create success that sustainable yet evolves and grows, and help build a legacy that will outlive your life. If this is calling you, just go to Donnie Starkins dot com and apply for either one of my programs.