Zay Jones' Comeback Story

00:00:10 Speaker 1: Welcome back, everyone to another episode of Comeback Stories with my man Donnie Starkins. As always, got an amazing guest here. Today we got my boy. You may know him as a receiver for the Jacksonville Jaguars. I just know him as a great man, man of God, a brother, a friend. Mister Isaiah Dave Jones in the building. What's up, brother? What's up? You know what's going on? Not too much man. Blessed to have you on here. Blused to have you in the city. You've been missed. Uh, Greater nation. Niece is one of our beloved guys. Man. You missed this guy dearly this year, just as a as a as a person in the presence in the locker room. Uh, dearly missed, bro, But grateful to have you here. Let's die right in. Man. What was what was life like for you growing up as a kid? Shoot? Man? Blessing U. Two parents married, same household, Very fortunate, a lot of kids running around. I'm one of six, two brothers, three sisters. Got an older brother, Caleb, younger brother Levi, Leah, Priscilla and Anna my sisters. We adopted Anna from China. She's been a huge blessing in addition to our family. But that's just what I know, my family. It means everything to me. Football has always been a part of me and who I am. My father played for ten years in the league, started in ninety two with the Dallas Cowboys, played four years with them, transitioned to Saint Louis Rams people know them now as Los Angeles Rams, but Miami Dolphins as well for a few more years after that, and then finished up with the Washington Redskins or now we know as the Commanders. But football has just been in my blood man, for as long as I could remember, and it's just been a big part of who I am, no doubt. So. I grew up in a household with two kids, so I couldn't imagine what six kids was like. Was it a very competitive environment? Maybe, like fighting for attention? Like how did that all work? I mean, yeah, I was still super competitive, especially when it came to the video game, you know, like old NC DOUBLEA when they were still making it and maddening things like that. But we loved each other. I think the only person I fought with the most was my older brother, just because I wanted to be like him so much, and and just the statute how I saw him and I perceived him. But we were just so close knit. I think my parents did a phenomenal job of raising that many kids. I remember just the discipline that they instilled in us. Even when we go to restaurants and things like that, people to be like, for these all your kids, and they're so well behaved, And you don't really realize the importance of that until you know, you become an adult and you see children here around children and things like that, and so, yes, it was competitive, but we loved each other. We always had each other each other's backs, and they're truly my best friends. We love asking who was a great teacher for you growing up? In some cases positive it depended on how somebody's childhood was, but it really sounds like that was your dad or your parents, Like what were some of the principles and just uh, you know, character qualities that day instilled in you that you still live by. Yeah, definitely, it's a great question when people ask me, like, who are your heroes, it's definitely my parents for multiple reasons. I mean, I could start with my mom leaving school to you know, marry the man of her dreams. And then raising six kids. And then for that matter, my mom did homeschooling for us. She taught me Spanish Latin, how to multiply, how to divide, and did that with six kids. And it's just such an incredible thing that she was doing, like I was mentioning earlier, and just how amazing she is to do that, you know, and and still love. Teach us about character, teach us about integrity, teach us, you know, right from wrong, all of us, you know, in the same household, and not everyone was obedient all the time. And so I just have a heart and a love for who she is as a woman, and just how intelligent, how smart she was to hold down the fort and the household. And then my dad has an incredible story. Came from tumultuous background with his family, you know, losing brothers, brothers dying, you know, his father, murdering his mother, and growing up really with not a whole lot of guidance, just trying to figure it out and makes it out of a situation he's not supposed to make it out of, and uses an avenue of football to provide and make something of himself when he shouldn't have been there. And I just really I could dive deeper into all that stuff, but I can really admire where he's gotten. But it's not just about Super Bowl rings, which he has three of, but like the character and integrity of him, the faithfulness he has to his wife, my mother, the commitment he has as kids to see them succeed. There's so many qualities of my parents that I could only hope to be as a man one day, and those two would definitely be my heroes for those reasons. You know how I see how present your parents are just from the few times that I've been around them. They're just always there and they want to be around you and just be there with you. So shout out to show to all the parents out there that are really, you know, carrying that burden for their children, doing whatever's necessary, and for the fact that they overcome what the cars that they were dealt. Like we have our mental health issues, we have our issues that we're fighting to overcome and be better men. But they didn't always have examples how to overcome. But here your dad is all he's been through your mom as well, being able to overcome and provide a good example, provide a good childhood for you, like we got shot out to parents real quick man, just exactly, you know, hold them down with respect exactly. But even with my parents were tremendous as well. But for me, I experience a lot of pain growing up outside of the household. Like for me, like it was not being black enough and just being a lot different than kids my skin color looked. And just like for just I was a weird kid, you know what I'm saying. But I was interested in a lot of things and that was hard for people to digest. I guess, is there an early memory of pain for you that may have changed your perspective a little bit from just social groups or whatever it was that may have impacted you in a way. Sure. I mean, I think I could touch on a few things here. I think, for one, how well spoken we were as as young kids. You know, it was it was kind of like, you know, why do you talk white? It's like what does that mean? Because I know how to speak, or I know how to pronounce words, or you know, things like that, or you know, if I had my shirt tucked in because I went to a private school one as I transitioned to public school, it was it was a little different right first, or like he you know, he hangs with the white kids, you know, but he doesn't have black friends, or he's not diverse, or he comes from money because his dad played in the league, that like he's not one and up, he's not one of us because he doesn't really understand will we go through? You know. So I think that was definitely there, not only for me, but for all of my siblings. Um. I think that we lived in a very affluent neighborhood, um in Austin, Texas. I grew up in Austin, Texas, and we were kind of you know, the accepted, you know, black family so to speak. You know, uh, we're not a threat or anything like that, you know. And and it's crazy because as time had gone on, Um, some things had happened to my family, you know, some a lot of stuff had going on. There was legal trouble with with kids, and there was you know, instances where my dad was getting blamed for stuff that he didn't do, which actually he overcame, Matt. But you started to see how those people who were so infatuated that my dad played for the Cowboys and had all these kids and we were so talented and loved us and invited us over and everything was great, turned into I'm not going to respond to their call anymore, or yeah, we knew them, you know, but we're not really we're not really close to them, you know. So there definitely was that from a standpoint of how we reviewed what we were accepted for but what we were still shunned as. So there's definitely that, And I think personally for me, a lot of pain came from the fact that as a young kid, I didn't know how to oftentimes manage you know, my dad played Pro ten years, three Super Bowl rings. My older brother is a five star recruit by the way, he committed to Texas basically his freshman sophomore years, so like they had all of this this glory in a sense, and I was like a little runt. I didn't really hit a gross sprint till my freshman year of college, and I struggled with feeling sort of inferior or not seeing m And then as time when when I began to channel that feeling of being overlooked or not being as good as my brother or my dad, having those expectations, well, your dad did this, and your brother did this what's wrong with you? Right? You know? Um? And looking back like that, that's that was really stupid for people to even say, because you know, football doesn't define you. It was something I wanted to do and I loved and I'm grateful for how I came up. But like my dad would have supported me if I was like, Pop, I don't want to play ball, I want to I want to play the piano, or he would just be like, do your best, then be the best at it. And so I was looked at sort of differently because I wasn't a five star recruit or six foot tall at an early age like both of my brothers were. So I definitely had a lot of pain and insecurity that came from feeling kind of outcasted in that sense. I'm just thinking about knowing your story, the not Black Enough story, which it sounds like it's very similar story to yours, which I have to imagine you guys have shared these similar stories and probably why you guys have a pretty solid bond. But it's interesting that that that not Enough, that's basically what it is. The story you had mentioned. My dad's in the studio today and he's got a shirt on that says love yourself. And this is kind of like a theme that I've had and I have retreats that are named love yourself and shirts. And this is why. It's because there's a common, like a universal problem that I see, and it's that we're not enough, that we don't love ourselves enough. And so when that wound is being hit, like you know, it's being validated you or the runt you're not you're not you're not meeting the expectations that other people have of you, like of your own size. Yeah, so you're constantly being hit. Your wound of not enough is being hit like NonStop, and it's it's hard because I remember everything you said was was very pure, and I agree, and I just remember like not being able to gain weight, you know, fast enough, and all these things, and I couldn't play varsity and it was things I couldn't even really control, and it cited me out because I thought I was doing something wrong. And that's dangerous because I completely believe that God's timing is perfect, and it's easier said than done. The trust that right and have faith in that. When your identity is rooted in the wrong things and you're forcing something like I can't make myself taller, and I everyway, you know, all everybody would be six two six whatever. You know what I'm saying, Like, it's just it was just my process, and I feel like it's so beautiful because that maturation of actually my physical growth, I saw me mature as a man in time too as well, if that makes any sense. And so I just remember feeling so doubted, a deep, deep rooted insecurity of feeling like I'm a failure, and I had to combat those feelings, some of them not the greatest emotions maybe expressed, and they did help in a sort of sense. But as I got older, I learned, okay, which which emotions are actually good for me now, Like I don't have to walk around thinking the world is against me anymore. I don't have to carry that, you know, as I can channel things in the right direction for myself and come with a better perspective. But definitely at a younger age, it's hard to kind of sift through all of those emotions, especially in your adolescent years. You know, so many things are going on in your mind. How did you navigate through it? Or who who helped you? Was it your faith yea, was that a combination of all of that. I my parents and still faith in me grew up, grew up in the church. But like it's not just like a grew up in the church or the church has my relationship with God, my relationship with Christ, my relationship being rooted in the right things, And it wasn't perfect by any stretch of the means. I'm still not perfect, but consistent faith in that I'm going to be taken care of, right, I'm going to be taken care of by the most eye. He's going to He's going to take care of me. Faith without works is dead, right, So practicing great habits and actually when things look bleak and things look dark, you still go anyways. Right. My dad did a phenomenal job of instilling being disciplined, being on time, and hard work. For sure. I remember school would start for us at like nine o'clock. My dad would have us first of all up in the morning, but he would have us legit there like six thirty six forty five, and we had extra time, right, So it's like, what do I do with this time? You know? When I realized that kids were rolling out of bed hours later eight thirty it almost became sort of my superpower that I began to like package because I would go to the weight room with my coach. Shout out Mike Rosenthal, by the way, I would go to the weight room with my coach, and I would I would work out, I would train, I would find something to try to get better at, you know, whether it was squatting, whether it was running. And I consistently did that. My dad oftentimes, I'm so grateful where he did this. But he would say go outside, don't come back, don't come back in the house until I tell you too. And so it's like, okay, so what do we do. Do we mess around, do we go b us around, or do we do we find something beneficial to work on. So I would get ladders and like, um, speed ladders, agility ladders, and I'll put them down the ground and I would work agility. We had this hill in Barton Creek in the front of our house, and I would run the hill. I would do push ups in between commercials, and my mom loves that story, but it's very true. Like if I watched TV show, I would just do push I was trying to find something through being productive. I think Oftentimes it's misinterpreted that patience is like you sitting back and you waiting. Well, okay, I could also be seen as wasting time. Patience could be you actively pursuing something while not forcing what's going on. You can still be devoted to your craft and letting it come in. It's perfect timing, it's perfect place, but you're still being proactive as you're getting to that end goal. And so I didn't really sit on my hands. I just worked right, And I understand it's not all by my doing two and I think that's the balance of the God at least I serve right. It's like I know in my head, I didn't do it all. It's not all about Za, but there is beauty in my craftsmanship, in working and giving him glory in the process of achieving my goals. And so that just came in time. And I'm super super fortunate and super blessed to have that perspective. Now, Yeah, I believe that faith relieves us from the burden of excessive responsibility. Right to be able, to have God, higher power, universe, whatever you choose to call it something, to give it up to right or to let go, or to be able to trust the timing where God's timing may be slow, but He's never late, yea. But to have that instilled in you when you go back to your the not enough story, like what would you say was your what did where did that story take you? Like what was your bottom? What was the lowest of the lows if you look back on your life and when was that? Gosh? I mean, so I remember going into multiple Let me back up. My brother had all these offers, right, his name is Caleb James. He was like top two receiver think in the nation. I think only behind Doyle Greenbeckham and um I think maybe Stefan Diggs. It was like they were they were the top three. And so I would go in all these recruiting trips, right, I would go to Texas with Caleb. I would go to Baylor, to TC where whatever it was, and I constantly got reminded of we want your brother. You know, you can come watch the games, but we're not here for you, you know what I'm saying. And it was like, Hey, we're gonna give you recruiting tickets, but you know, we're not seriously interested in you. And I remember even Texas, if we go back I remember the Acho brothers, the Picaro brothers, I remember the Shipley brothers. Um, I remember the McCoy brothers. I remember all these brothers right who went to the Universe University of Texas, and growing up in the backyard of the Longhorns, I always had envisioned being with my brother going to school, right, and then you know Matt Brown and them all these all these coaches were just pretty much like no. And honestly, it wasn't them. I truly believe it was God redirecting my path. So I would say my lowest point was that constant feeling of like I'm going to these camps, I'm working hard, I'm still behind these top guys who are perceived as the best receivers. No one notices me. I put in all this work, and it seems as though guys who do less get more glory, so to speak. I'm trying my all and I still can't gain the weight. I'm praying and I'm being persistent, but I'm not seeing anything move right. And then I was a very very homebody. You know, kids are everyone's different, right. Some people can't wait to get out the house and leave. I was very much at homebody. I loved my family, I loved being in the state of Texas. I never imagined myself leaving. And I remember we were sitting at Popado's actually in Austin, and my dad, this is after I like, I tried so many schools and you were filling out questionnaires, you know, height wait, I'm like lying on this. I'm like, oh, I'm six one. You know what I'm saying. I'm wanting. But like all these all these efforts I'm trying to put in and they're all just kind of getting overlooked, right, And I remember being at a Popodo's restaurant and my dad was like, Hey, why don't we try my alma mater and to East Carolina University and we'll send it to them. We'll send their the tape to them, and you know, it's what you see, what you see, what happens. So I'm like, yeah, sure. I mean at the time, what I perceived East Carolina. East Carolina was so far from me. I'm a young kid, like I live in Texas, you know, I want TCU. ECU was so far fetched, and we sent them tape. Ruth and McNeil had called me back literally like thirty to forty five minutes later, it was like, zay, you're your tape just came through. We were an offensive meeting. That's when Lincoln Riley was there. He was like, we just put on your tape when we watched it, and we love you. We want to offer you a full scholarship to ECU. And I just remember crying. Bro I just broke down. I just started crying. It just came out of nowhere, like that blessing just came out of nowhere, right, And I remember just feeling like God saw me, you know, like a needle in a haystack. He saw me, and I committed to East Carolina. I waited a little bit because it was so emotional. My parents were like just wait a second. You know. Me thought maybe there would be more, but like I still believe those those were blocked because I was supposed to go to East Carolina. So I go there the only offer I have, you know, fourth fifth on the depth chart going into training camp, and then you fast forward. I had broken two to three NCAA records and you know, hold all these accolades and end up becoming a second round draft pick. I mean I remember watching from Afar and like Dan like he like was like all time receptions in NC double a like of all any rich college or see where you can think of, and it's like it was very impressive to look at from Afar, Like I went to Georgia, I had fifty one catches in four years, and I'm like, he probably does that in half a season. But now in the position that I'm in, especially just with as far as my mental journey and spiritual journey, I look at that and now I want to ask, like, what was your mental health journey like in that time, because I'm sure there's a lot of weight. I'm sure it was a burden and a blessing at the same time. Perhaps like what was that like rising to that level? And um, was there not enough story? Still trying to chirp at you like wet take us through that time? Yeah, So I didn't. I didn't go into ECU saying like I'm gonna break this record, this record, I'm gonna be a blittant called finalists. Didn't. I didn't do any of that. All I wanted to do was prove the people who believed in me right. That was my overall like theme of I wanted to make sure Lincoln Riley, Ruthin McNeil, the East Carolina fan base knew that who they were getting, they were going to someone who was completely devoted and committed to this university like they had never seen before, just because like I had that passion built up from so much I think denial that I just wanted to pour into someone who was seeing me and witnessing me. And I just trained. I just remember I said, I want to be the greatest player who ever came through the school. That's it. And I just worked like it. And it was the the incremental growth, the meticulous growth from year to year. I mean it started with sixty five catches the freshman year to eighty one my sophomore year, I think to ninety seven my junior year, two one hundred and fifty eight my senior year. And I remember sitting down. I remember sitting down before my senior year because we had got a new coaching change and I would never forget this film mcgagan, who's our wide receivers coach. He brought me into his office and was like, hey, I've heard a lot of things about you. I want to hear it from your mouth. What type of player do you want to be? What do you want to do this year? And I told him like I looked at him because there was I said it with so much confidence and sincerity. I said, I want to win a championship. I want to be a first team All American. I want to catch fifteen hundred yards. I want ten touchdowns, I want one hundred and fifty catches. I want to break some records. That's when I made those visions, and I mean, by the grace of God, I did it. I ended up with like eighteen hundred yards, like nine touchdowns, one hundred and fifty eight catches. I was a first team All American. Unfortunately we didn't want a championship. But everything I set out, I don't think you can make unrealistic goals without genuine, real work, ethic and vision and like making it concrete, making it these things formulate and become like actual tissue. You gotta make it mesh and you gotta make it raw and real. I don't think it's just like free floating thoughts and ideas. It's just like, yeah, I'll have that, and I'm just supposed to have it. Like I genuinely was like I think these things are I deserve these things because of my persistence, the level in which I pursue them, with the integrity, the steps I'm taking, the work ethic I'm putting in, the training I put in, and the overall arching theme because I believe my father in heaven, my God has a plan for me that he wants to see me succeeded. He wants the most for me, so He's gonna give me something very special. LA faith in that. So the mental journey of like Darren just elevating every single season, bro, like freshman's A couldn't have said what seniors A said because it wasn't there yet, but just like trusting that And that's part of that process I'm talking about. If you look at like the trajectory of my life so to speak, is like that that growth, that growth and then shooting up, you know. And I still feel like it was the same way of freshman to sophomore to junior to senior and entering the league, though things changed a little bit for me. But I don't know. We have time but we can dive into that as well. Oh no, we definitely have time. We try to. We got time to day cuse, but yeah, I mean that's really the whole reason we have this platform is you know we see these there's ebbs and flows the entire way of of of great of great peaks, and then there's there there's some values you talk about, you know how you feel like you couldn't like buy an offer or get somebody to look at you. Did you become you know, such a just a powerful force for your team, for just in college football. And then you know, you get to the early part of your career, like take us through like some of the adversity that you faced in that early part with coming in with great expectations put on you and get going in to an environment that I may not necessarily have been what one would expect it, but it's the cards even dealt Like what was that? Like, Yeah, life really hit me fast my rookie season, especially the NFL. You know how difficult it is. And so m I still the beautiful thing about the story of like everything that was so monumental to me, at least in my mind at ECU was only the beginning of this actual journey, right, And ECU didn't get a whole lot of praise as far as like from the outside looking outside looking in. But ECU themselves gave me so much love and supported me, and I think I could only see it now in retrospect when I look back at it, I think that I still had flaws and I still didn't do things the best. But I was so loved and just like welcomed and promoted and seeing It's such like I hate using the word untouchable, but I was. I was just really really loved there and had so much praise. My rookie season was the first time I faced true criticism now outside of the ECU bubble of like I lived in this world of ECU kind of against the world in a sense because like no one you know, it's all about what we think, which is very healthy when you transition. Though when you don't, you don't make the proper transitions mentally, which I didn't know. That was very, very difficult. So when I entered my rookie season in Buffalo, first and foremost, to play any position on that level is difficult. I don't care who you are, the league humbles you at some point. And so I remember getting to Buffalo. You know, we had traded Sammy Watkins, we had traded Marcel Darius, I believe, Ronald Darby, all these guys, and like there's so many changes going on, new staff coming in, and you know, I didn't really know, to be honest, genuinely, what it meant to be a number one receiver in Buffalo. I just didn't know, like what that entailed. Who you're going to be facing every week, weekend and week out. Preparation, adapting, in transferring your game, you know, like those are just things you learned, And to be quite honest, it was really really difficult. I had some success, but I failed a lot, a lot, and it was hard, and I tore my shoulder. I remember Week seven and some of the staff they knew, not everybody knew, But like I just thought, well, I gotta keep playing, you know, because I'm a second round pick and I can't sit out because these games matter. I didn't even realize how long an NFL season truly was. Bro I didn't, And now I caught myself kind of riding this wave of who I was at ECU that Donnie. I didn't reset, you know what I'm saying. I didn't. I didn't really like reset. It transition so quickly into like the Senior Bowl to the combines the offseason workouts and visiting and rookie mini camp training camp, and it just got I couldn't catch my breath. I didn't I didn't reset, and then I'm now I'm facing, you know, to the likes of Morris Clayborne, Stefan Gilmore, m Marcus Peters, Casey Hayward, you know, all of these guys, and I'm like, this is hard. You know, I really had I really didn't love the game the same way anymore. You know. It's kind of like I'd climbed through this this glass ceiling and like finally broke it open, only to get there and realize that I'm staring at a mountain that I haven't brought all the proper tools for. That's a very defeating feeling. And I remember feeling suffocated through that season of like it's weekend, it's week out. Um. I finally got to the end of that season, I was so I was so elated for that season to be over because I was like, dude, I just need to rest. But then I didn't rest in the right ways, right. I went down a little path of trying things I shouldn't be trying dabbling in situations I shouldn't be shouldn't have been in, you know, surrounding myself with with people that I shouldn't have been in that ended up me that that made me end up getting into trouble. I got arrested in LA. It's actually the first time I've talked publicly about this. UM. I remember getting in trouble in LA, and that was to me the pit right there, because although yes, it's hardness difficult, I just had so much growth in learning to do and I didn't actually realize it that I felt like I had squandered my opportunity with the Bills organization, and there were things going on that you know, but I'll keep it more just personal. M I felt like I had really wasted the opportunity, and I felt terrible about it, Like these people have invested in me, UM, I could blame whoever. I mean, that's not going to help. And I remember sitting in I remember sitting in jail feeling like, man, I really screwed up. I really screwed up. I was like all that for all that for how do you go from NC double A records to you know, underperforming your rookie season and in jail. How does that work? And so I really had to ask myself, like, who do you want to be as a man type of character you're gonna why do you want to how do you where do you want to go from here? I remember coming back playing my second year. I played pretty well, actually had seven seven touchdowns. You know, I led the team and like most of the categories as a as a receiver. But I still feel like my image was tainted a little bit. And Buffalo Bills. Buffalo Bills fans man like, they love their football, they support their team, but they don't shy away from speaking and saying how they feel. I let a lot of things infiltrate my mind. I heard a lot of outside perspective. I would just look at people and just I would kind of like do they know I'm now I'm like paranoid, you know, walking around Buffalo like do they you know I'm still what twenty two? And walking into Wagmans and like people look at me. I'm like, or are they looking at me because they know I played for the Bills? Or are they looking at me because I got cuts and scars on me and they know I've been arrested. You know, I went through a huge mental bat it on top of what it takes to play in this league. You know, so I just had a lot going on. Man. I would say that that jail was my lowest point of like feeling that depression and feeling like, you know, people are calling me crackhead and a meth head and you do PCP, and you know, how do you have millions of dollars and you're just like they didn't even know my own family situation. They didn't know anything that was going on. But it was like that outside perception of like, bro, you had everything and you lost it. What were some of the tools that were missing? You talked about your your first season, your rookie season that there there weren't there were tools that you did not have. What were some of those tools that maybe you've picked up in these last few years. Yeah, for sure, I would say just how to prepare first of all, how to prepare your body. You know, you think at one, twenty two, twenty three, it's like your body's gonna run forever. I mean, which at that moment in time, it will, but there's gonna be wear and tear. How to be more proactive than reactive. What I mean by that is how do I get on top of preventing injuries before the injury gets there? You know, things like that, um mentally, how to prepare your psyche for a football game. So it's not like I go to practice, I come I go to practice, I come home. I call an autopilot mode, which I was on because I'm like, well, I just this is my job. I go to practice and then you know, I mean, whatever happens, happens, they pay you, You go home, and you just wait until game day, now you know. And that's not how it works. I mean, if you live like that, you play like that. Unless you're like the anomaly of one percent, you're just raw talent better than everybody who steps out, You're gonna find yourself on the couch watching them very soon. So it's like the mental preparation of like, Okay, I need to be tactical and have techniques about how I'm approaching this upcoming week. I need to study, I need to be more involved. I need to put people in my circle that are willing to tell me what areas of my game I lack, you know. And so it's give a kid all the catches in the world, and he does so great, and now he thinks that like he knows everything, which is not the case. So I think you have to be confident enough to know I can go out here and compete. She's got to be humble enough to be like, I can still learn, you know what I'm saying. So I think just hitting on some of those would be the things that like the tools of as far as like resetting mentally when I'm going through physically, how do I need to do this now? How do I get open? How do I create separation instead of just thinking like it's going to happen? You know what I'm saying. What about emotional tools or things to regulate your emotions. Sure, I think that talking to you know, therapists or counseling, you know, it was really seen as like you're crazy or you got something wrong with you. It's not the case, you know, as both of you guys know, and people need, especially men need someone to talk to just to get things out in the right way and learning how to unpack what you're feeling. You know, I used to be very critical of myself of I don't feel like playing football today, or maybe I don't love the game as much right now. It's like there's something wrong. Well, now I've realized, no, there's not anything wrong. I'm human, right, So how do I unpack that and how to Okay, you don't maybe you don't feel completely in love with the game today, that's okay, right? What is the basis of what I need to do though? What I have to create a standard of myself of how I'm going to carry myself regardless, right, I'm gonna stay within this framework and it can bend a little bit, you know, but I'm gonna stay very level of how I'm going to approach my day and putting better thoughts inside and having better conversations and like not forcing myself to like I have to feel this way or I have to you know what I'm saying, Like I have to have this elation of being here, right because like, oh, you play football. It's the most amazing job in the world. So you're just you're supposed to be happy, you know what I'm saying. It's like, Darren, how many times have like, bro, some days get hard. Nobody is going to be happy when four body parts on your body hurt. You know what I'm saying, like, so it's like, you're supposed to be grateful. So it's like, yeah, okay, I'm supposed to be grateful, So I can't. Now I can't express that I don't got it today or whatever it is, you know, and now you feel like maybe you gotta put on this this smile or this front because now people are gonna think that you you're not happy to be here, or you don't love football, like you're not a football football guy, you know what I'm saying. And so I had to learn that, like I can still come to work, do my job, be cordial, be loving, be grateful, and still have things that I'm processing and going through and that's okay. That's completely okay. That doesn't mean now I neglect what I'm supposed to do or you know, I have an attitude towards people, But I've had more grace for myself and understanding that like some people may view me as, you know, a superhero or a football player. So there's but I'm still a person and I still go through things and giving myself space even within the day of time maybe like ten fifteen minutes. Just be like, bro, it's okay. It's okay to feel the way you feel, process it, think about it, pack it up, proceed forward. You know what I'm saying. I didn't know how to do that rookie season, so I thought that. You know, a lot of people have deemed my character to be like a very outgoing, you know, bright, fun, talkative person, which I am, but that doesn't mean I'm like that every single day. You know, like I go through things, You go through things. We all have things in our heart that like maybe we struggle to verbalize. You know, I wear my heart on my sleeve, like you'll know when I'm sad or upset or matter. So it's like, dude, that's completely okay, but how do you work through that? I think that's what emotionally I have I've learned and more so as a reclent, but definitely did not have that my rookie season. I mean, this is the essence of loving yourself and self love and also having the awareness of this core wound of the not enough story, which it sounds like was was there right growing up high school. And then you have this image of perfection you have to meet, but perfect isn't even real, So then you're constantly validating the not enough story, trying to be perfect and days you're banged up and want to rest in your mind is saying you need to do more. But the key you've said it multiple times for anybody else listening, whatever, if you have an unwanted emotion coming up, you're not feeling worthy, if you're feeling inadequate, or you maybe messed up, to say it's okay. Yeah, that's the piece. There's an acronym stop, which is like I'll use it as a pattern interrupt for coaching clients, which is the s's first stop. The T is for take three breaths. The O is for observe what's happening, like come into your body, scanning your body, and the pea is proceed proceed with love and kindness or love and compassion, where you can say it's okay to feel this. Yeah, I'm not weak, I'm not afraid, I'm not fucked up for feeling this. It's okay. Yeah, a human being definitely. That is like such a radical piece of the self compassion aspect that I think so many people are missing, especially man. Yeah, I mean I think you said everything. Yeah, you just said it. I completely agree with you. It's like it's like, if you think of the essence of like a commitment, I feel like a commitment is the choice of the response to continue to press on or persevere, like even when your desire to do so it has like subsided or it's gone away. Like there's no like We're going to experience a wide range of emotions no matter what we do, whether it's football, whether it's our craft, whether it's meditation, whether it's anything that involves a practice. Uh, just progress over time. I'm where it's a continued showing up and doing of things. Like requiring ourselves to be in this perfect emotional state is unrealistic and really unhealthy completely. But it's more so about your response to adversity, your response to how somebody else may treat you. It's responding in a way that's indicative of your character, even when you know I don't even really want to act this way, I don't even really want to hold myself to this standard on this day, but I'm going to do it anyways. And how else can that commitment really be tested other than you know, to go through something. Yeah, I know you said, I said everything, but I feel like you said everything in that last a series of conversations that you just had. I mean, there's so much I want to bring up, like going back to your values, like I believe that you are who you are today and you are where you are because of your values. Like you just embody and are like resonating, really embodying just solid core values. And even goes back to the goals that you said to your college coach, which all of those goals for people that are trying to set goals and you're not achieving them. Sometimes we set goals, but they're not based on our own core values. You have to know your core values. You better know who you are before you set those goals, because oftentimes we're setting goals around what the world thinks, what our family thinks, and it's like we have to know who we are. And also it's important for all human beings, but especially you guys, with just being infiltrated by so much external noise and people wanting your attention and trying to pull you off your center. Is boundaries. Yeah, you have to know your values to set boundaries because the boundary is getting crossed when a value gets stepped on. But if you don't know your values, right, You're just gonna let people walk all over you all the time. So there's just so much there and I just really want to acknowledge you for your values and what a gift. And I don't think so much of it comes from faith and this process of life and this journey that's led you to this moment. Right, thank you very much. I mean you're saying that means a lot. I really appreciate that. Yeah, it's very clear. One thing I definitely want to talk about is, you know, when you were here and just us becoming friends, Like, you know, I just at practice in the building, like I would just like watch you and watch how you moved and just like wasn't all of you because you were like incredibly undervalued when you were here. I'll come out and say, I don't give man, was incredibly undervalued, but you still showed up to work every day and you were the hardest working person on the team. I mean it'd be if you and Max were one A, one B. I might put myself like two, you know, like and it was just incredible because every day it was probably reminders in your head of like, man, this is not like the situation I would prefer and especially with the way that I work and the way that I produced when I give an opportunities on this practice field, like how do you show how did you show up? Like? What was the key to having a good mindset? Because I feel like a lot of people listening maybe in a situation where it's like man, I feel undervalued or I don't feel like I'm getting to respect. I deserve opportunities I deserve, Like how would you help them in their process? Yeah? Yeah, gosh, that's a lot I'm like trying to process. I think it simply came down to, Okay, you're not being valued or used the way that you want to. Right, that's completely I understand that. Now how do I act? Who does it affect? And really like the core values? Who do I want to be? And if I started letting you know, coaches opinions about me or where they see me truly dictate me, Well, now they've thrown me off because now I'm latching on more what they say. And it could send me in a couple of directions. Right, it could send me in a tank, and I can feel sorry for myself. It could and now I would never achieve what I would like to achieve. It can make me angry and now become a cancer to those around me. Now people don't want to be around me, you know what I'm saying, because of my attitude and what it radiates. It's like now every time they're around and say it's like yeah, dude, he's cool, but like bro, he just sees it's something about just just negative. It just brings me down, you know what I'm saying. So I really had to evaluate, Okay, truly is this all about me? Once I get out of my way, now I can see things from a greater perspective, which is not you know, and I think oftentimes if you're struggling, maybe you're seeing everything solely about you. So I try to go in I try to have a balance with this, so I don't want to be hypocot vertical, but like I go in ways where I got to protect myself and I do have to be a little bit selfish in order to pour into other people. And there's moments when things are just so frustrating and I'm feeling unseen and I'm not feeling heard. What's just like, dude, not everything's about you. So then I had to realize building bonds with you guys, and it being organic helped me so much because now I know I know Darren's story. You don't think Darren wants to be great, You don't think that he's worked too. Why can't you support him? Because it's his time right now? Why don't you love him? You know? And this is his moment? You don't think Derek Carr hasn't been through a whole lot the seasons that he's had with the Raiders, He's been through just as much as us. A man looked differently, but he's been through just as much as you. Why can't you support him in his time? Yeah? Look at Foster, you know, look at Matt, look at alec Ingle. Why can't you be the best possible teammate you can for them? Because ultimately, if you can do that and you receive no glory, that says a lot about you. And then it also you gotta think, who are you serving when you're doing it right? If you're serving men's expectations, and if you're serving you know, fans and coaches and things like that, well then dude, you're gonna be tossed all over the place because that's fickle. That changes all the time, right, But if you if your eyes and your heart are set on like you know what, God, I'm gonna I'm gonna serve you. I'm gonna focus on you. I'm gonna give you everything I have. And whether the blessing comes now, five years, two years, ten years, or never, I still know that I did it with a pure heart and intention to love those around me and ultimately love you. That is a way better place to live than walking in the building and like looking at the script and being like, bro, I don't got one asked for me here today, So I'm just I don't whatever. Bro, I'm just gonna I'm just gonna walk around and like kind of be upset and pissed off and like the first sign of like because you know what sneaks back in now, that arrogance and probably you know what it does. Now, it's like they're out to get me, right right, They're out to get me. Oh, I know he never liked me, so I mean it just that's how it was supposed to go. Now, there are some real circumstances of people who had like really really bad break like or whatever it is. But like if you take the victim role. Bro, that doesn't help. It really doesn't. I agree with let's I'll tell you know, my my siblings or my friends or whoever is. I'm like, okay, bro, let's have a pity party for five minutes and then let's talk about how you know. So I had to really really work through that, and that's a daily thing you have to do, right. And I remember there would be moments like that needle in the haystack where I was like when I was like God sees me. There would be moments I remember Coach Gruden. Um, I remember Coach Gruden had called me in on one play in practice. It was this one specific route. Um. It was like from a nasty split. We would what's someone who ran like eighteen to twenty yards and we like shut it down immediately. It was like like almost like a lock or something like that. I don't know if you remember, but anyways, it was this one specific route that you know, kind of guys were struggling on or for whatever reason, like we just weren't hitting. And I remember practicing this route. I didn't do it in front of anybody. I practiced it just because I was like, I think that's a good route. For me. You know, I got good length, good speed, but it wasn't for me. It was meant for somebody else. Um, I think it was meant for like, uh, I won't even it's not that's not that's not important. Gruden called me in and was like, give me Zay Jones. Zay, come on into get me, Zay Jones, come on in here and run this route. Man, let's see what you got. Man, don't mess it up, bro, I'm telling you. And then, uh, dude, bro, we broke the huddle. I had practiced it, so there's no reason for me to be fearful. And Derek threw it and I called it and it's like that wasn't like a spectacular moment to anybody else, but I remember that right. So that validated right there that because you were prepared, you know, because you you didn't worry about I could have had a terrible attitude. Was like, that route's not for me, so why I'm going to practice it? Well, that's stupid. They got him on it, so like it's never gonna come to me. What if they would have called me and I never would have practiced it. And then I missed that opportunity and So there were little things throughout, you know, my season, in my life that that like those glimpses that validated what I was doing was correct. Then we get to Monday Night against Baltimore and we're playing. I caught one ball I think before the first half was over. That was it. I didn't get another ball until overtime came, and I just remember being like, we're gonna win this game. I'm supporting my teammates. I'm supporting Henry Brian Hunter, you know, just doing the best I can. I'm blocking right, the blocking receiver, the clear out receiver, and we get in the bunch stack and Derek Audible's cover zero. He sees it and I beat Marlon Humphrey and I catched the ball in over time in the stadium erupts Monday night football against Baltimore, and everything was validated for how my teammates embraced me in that moment, you know what I'm saying, Like they showed me love, you know, because I felt like I'd been giving and pouring out, but like they showed me love in that in that moment, And that was just one one moment, Like I could talk about a lot of moments like that, But those consistent days of stacking I think. I know it's long winded, I can talk forever, but keep going. That's that's the mindset you should carry. I know it's it's hard, it's difficult. I'm not like I haven't mastered it by any sort of sense. Like it's still a daily thing for me. But like, dude, what place would you rather live? Would you rather live in a world where you're supporting and loving people and waiting for your opportunity. It's going to come. You just gotta stay patient, or do you want to play victim and think that the world doesn't love you and there's nothing out there for you. I mean, I'd rather live in a world with hope than one feeling empty. Bro. What she's saying is so good right now, bro, like and seeing what your life has become. Now. I heard this quote recently from a pastor shot at Cherry Flowers to be preaching fire. Ask cuz, but he said, if services beneath you, leadership is beyond you. If service is beneath you, leadership is beyond you. And you see I see it as we talk about faith, talk about God, right, he's observing us. He is with us, and he sees the way that you conduct yourself in these environments when it's not necessarily cater to you. It's not necessarily cater to you know what's best for you and in the best fit for you. But he sees the way that you conduct yourself. He knows that there's a foundation in place for you to be able to handle the success that you have now. And I don't I think a lot of people want to skip those steps. Yeah, you know, I had the moments just like you. I was in Baltimore. I got reinstated and put on practice squad and we dropped to Mark Andrews and dude was bawling from day one, and and I had I still had some envy in my heart. I was still trying to get get right, you know, say mentally and spiritually. So I still had those things in my heart. And I remember when when God finally reached me and was like support this dude, like gas this dude like and just you know how much that made me feel better about myself in return overall respect I had for myself and supporting this man, and that allowed me to have an opportunities to wear you know, I can actually show up and have relationships with you guys, and it actually means something. It's not like me trying to you know, impress you or have you on my side. So I can just have a little Instagram and I have dudes on like you know what I'm saying, Like, yeah, that happens, you know what I So, it's like I've had these moments and now I look back from the position I'm in through the highs and the lows, like moments where I had to be humbled in moments where you know, truly being about service. And the more I make this about enriching the life of somebody else and supporting somebody else, how it comes back to me like it's a biblical principle for the Christians out there, like in really just a way to live life, because when it's all about me, my world just becomes smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller. But when it's about other people and making this world a better place, making any environment I'm in a better place, my world gets larger and there's more for me to come in. Because God knows it's not just gonna get to me and stop, It's gonna be able to get through me and be passed on to somebody else. So just no, Bro, every time I look at you, I see that you are a true embodiment. Bro Likewise, Bro, you inspire me. Broda you know that I love this like I should slide back get some of this love. Man, it's amazing. I mean you don't have to be an NFL football player to resonate with this message. I hear early on high school going on these recruiting trips with your brother, a lot of victim mindset, right, And it's that's the shift. This is the essence of comeback stories. The only story that matters is the one you tell yourself. So if you're telling yourself I'm getting screwed, nobody loves me right, coaches out to get me full on victim mentality, No, there's no growth in that space. It's like, what's the lesson? Who am I here to serve? And you know we talk about service all the time. This is true service what you're talking about, not like serving with a hidden agenda or like being fake about it. Like true service, which is ultimately the antidote if you're in a funk, if you're having a tough time, like just go help go help somebody, because then you're not going to be thinking about your shit or the woe is me story. And it still is the easier, softer way than playing the victim or trying to control things you can't control, or giving your power away to your coaches. It's like, this is how you take your power back. I'm telling you that the truth is undefeated, man, and if you can live with truth and living in truth, walking with truth, man, it may not be what you envisioned, but it's going to be worth it. It's it's going to be it's gonna be powerful, it's gonna be far more rewarding than what you could have ever imagined. There are moments that I've had the Raiders and even the Jags that like, I could not have envisioned them in the way that they've came. And I didn't. I didn't sketch it. I didn't I didn't plan that. That's truly by the mercy and gift from God. And if you can walk the best you can, you're not gonna be perfect. If you can walk the best you can in truth, serving those around you, living genuine, doing things with no hidden agenda. As we speak up, spoke of be cordial, be hard working, and be determined. Face yourself, face your demons, look in the mirror, ask yourself the tough questions. I mean, that's that's the life that that I'm trying to uphold myself too and walk in. Um. I just I feel as though it's far more rewarding to live that way than to live in a world where you think everything is about you and you're supposed to have it this way. I actually enjoy now the surprises of life and what they bring in, what God has in store because he shows up. Man, things look bleak. It's like a movie. Things look it's like, I don't know how I'm going to get through this, and then you get through it and you're like, man, every time, God is good. You know what I'm saying. It's just that that real, genuine, refreshing, like damn, God is good. Bro. Those are moments that that that means the most to me. So I'm just grateful to be in this position, and it's now grateful to be with the Jags. I wanted to say earlier that I don't think you were the only only one undervalued on your under team. That you're or you're following This is me speaking. What would you say you're you're you're sound and embody this faith in your practices, rituals? What do those look like today? Like we always talk about morning routines and consistencies. We had Mark Roves on a few weeks ago and I asked him what the definition of self love was and he said routines, rituals and habits and really sticking with those. What what do your practices look like? Do you have a morning routine, meditation, prayer? Like, what are your non negotiables these days? It's a really good question. UM. More centered around prayer and reading the word and having God center people around you, I think is would be mine. Um, definitely staying in contact with with Lord, but aligning your prayer with His will. Um. Oftentimes I think, um, you know, we want things for us to be done. You know, I don't think there's anything wrong with coming and asking God for the desire desires your heart. But do the desires of your heart align with His plan and his will. So for me recently it's kind of been like, okay, Lord, help me put put you know, your eyes and your lens over mind? What do you desire? What do you want and how do the things that I would like? Okay, what's the root of why I want them? Right? That's tough intentions because I tell you sometimes, bro, it's hard because it's like I want it because and then it's kind of like shame, like you know why I want it? You know what I'm saying. So it's like it's like, okay, so help me help me in those areas. Lord, help me with my unbelief in areas that I struggle with, you know, help me sift through what I'm going through. So I think definitely prayer, but also listening, listening to God and reading reading his word. Oftentimes we speak to God, but do we listen? You know what I'm saying. And these are areas I can grow in all of them. So I'm not saying like I'm completely perfect, but then having conversations and having having people who will hold you accountable to the things that you say, I think are very very key. I have good friends and great god fearing men in my circle, and none of them are perfect. But we can have honest conversation with each other, you know, without it being offensive or like that's what I'm saying, Like walking with truth, you know, And so those were kind of be the things that are centered for me day to day. I have not done any specific sort of meditation, but I think a lot of things in a lot of forms can be meditation. So breathing exercises, holding in for four, or breathing in for for account, holding it for two, pushing out. I do that often even before I play, I know. But taking moments of recognition of being live and what that means, being grateful, practicing gratitude, I think oftentimes puts things in perspective for you, or at least for me. It does reaching out to those I love, telling him I love them, thinking about them, and then acting on it and actually praying for the people I say, I'm going to pray for you, know, like now I'm going on a tangent, but like no, I'm wall pray for you. But like do you actually get on your knees and pray for them? Do you actually, you know, do you try to speak life into them? Those are just the things I the rituals, so to speak. I think I'm I'm trying to practice what would you say to somebody that is resonating with our conversation? But it's still struggling with the God thing. I mean a lot of people still struggling. Dude. I have so many questions still. So it's like we we like, no one person has it all figured it out. But I would say, pursue, pursue actually what the truth is? Not the truth you tell yourself, oh this is true? Well okay. Well you know if I said your shirt is is yellow and you were like, no, my shirt is this color? Will can they be? I don't pursue actual truth, solid foundation of what truth is? You know what I'm saying, Um, study, put forth, effort, search, seek, seek who God says he is, not who someone on you saw on Instagram said, or someone on YouTube said, seek for your own eyes who the character of who God says he is? You know what I'm saying. Ask questions, be ask a lot of questions, you know, continuous ask thus, continuously ask those questions. Um, I'm not I'm not like, what is it like A I don't know. I don't know the proper term that I'm searching for. I guess I'm not a pastor evangelist. Yeah, I think we gotta evangelize in our own ways. I'm not like a person who has all every single knowledge about doctrine and everything like that. But you know what I search and I look now, I ask ask questions. I surround myself with good people who are honest with me, and we share same core values and belief and be like, Okay, this is not just some free floating thought idea. There's actual evidence for it. It's it's been documented. You know, we're moving in a direction of you know why our faith is in this area, you know, things like that. So I would I would say, just just keep searching. Something I would add to that is, um. I always struggled in my relationship with God was like, you know, my grandfather's a pastor, UM, my great grandma, my cousin the building. You know how they get down. They they prayer warriors, and they got all the all the big prayer words and whatnot. One thing I realized for me was if I'm seeking God, like, I don't need to have all the thous and the thous and these eloquent prayers like talk to him real, like come from authenticity. Like I'm hurting, like I'm struggling, Like I feel like a slave to this. I feel like I feel weak in this like I don't know what to do here, Like if you come before God like that instead of saying you know, thou holiest of Like if that's how you get down, that's how you get down. But if you're formulating your words in a way to trying to impress with your prayer or to make it sound good as opposed to it, if you come and come bleeding, come hurting, come confused, come hurt, like, come as you are. And I feel like if you're seeking that whatever that higher power looks like in your life, if it's God, whatever it is, like, you're more likely to meet with it if you come as you really are, Because I don't think he's gonna bless who you think you are, who you think you want to be. He's gonna bless and work with and walk with exactly who you are. Yeah, it's almost like the how acronym taking that approach, which what I heard you said it earlier you said it. But honesty like getting honest, and we know in the world of recovery, really it's in any kind of self helped personal development, Like if you can't get honest, there's no chance. Yeah, there's no chance. You gotta get honest. But even from a faith standpoint, whatever you choose to believe that open minded is the oh and the how acronym. You got to be open minded if you think your way where a lot of people have been conditioned. Maybe they were brought up in one faith and there's just even trauma there because maybe they saw their parents preaching one thing but living in a different way. So there's just so much confusion there. They were told something, you know that it didn't really didn't align with the actions that they were seeing. Yeah, and then the ws willingness, And that's I think that willingness to get curious, like to to get curious to listen, you know, listen to the signs. I believe for me, it's like God speaks through the mouths of other people. That's where I hear. That's where I hear the spirit. The signs the most right, it's like through the mouths. And this is why it's important to listen. And it's also important why it's to be present, because if you're not present, you're gonna miss the message. I mean, dude, I love this conversation. I could really talk about this all day. I will also tell people like what's your standard of truth too, right, the God, the Bible, I know, Yahweh is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow, and so that's not changing. And so what's your standard of truth? Is a social media where that changes every day? That's fickle. That's a I mean, more power to you if that's the way you want to go It is it the internet? You know? Like what what do you have to base your truth off of? Whatever it is for you? If that's your standard, Okay, live by that, walk it out, you know what I'm saying. And so yeah, I would that's just someone advice that I would I would offer to someone who's like, well, what's the whole god thing? You know? What would be your advice to somebody that's just struggling right now? They're stuck, they know they're stuck, but they don't know what to do about it. What would you say to them? That's a great question. This is the hot seat. You got ice in your veins in that seat right now? Um? Okay, I mean I think the easiest answer would be like, yes, ask for help about how right is that? Is? That? More is that? More so who's struggling? Um, find someone that you admire and like maybe not what they have, but you know more so who they are. Right, talk to that person, ask them shadow that person. Like I said, surround yourself with good people. Surround yourself with people who are wiser than yourself, who have lived longer, who know things. Be mindful of your surroundings. You know what I'm saying. I think that's crucial to getting fortunately enough For me, I had a great dad, like I said earlier, great parents that when I was stuck or needed help, those are the people that I went to. I know not everybody has that, but there are, I mean, there are access to mentors and things of that sort. So I would say, definitely, try to find someone that you can emulate in a healthy, respective way to try to put yourself in a position Like I would say for anyone struggling with addiction or things that that they battled, look at someone who's overcame it and walks in a pure and graceful way and who's still a strong leader. Picked their brain, asked them, bug them. You know what I'm saying, like, make them tell you like, Okay, I need a break, you know what I'm saying, Like, find someone that you admire and that perfect person, and I know who a perfect person is too. Yeah, that's what I would say. We meant to live life alone. We're supposed to be amongst people, supposed to be walking this thing out together, and we've had that community. Yeah. Man, thank you for coming on. I don't know what I was expecting, but I wasn't expecting this and just um, I feel like we could go all day. The level of depth, um again, the faith just what you embody, it should be acknowledged and it was a blessing to have you on with us today. Thank you, Thank you both man. This is so great. Yeah. I really enjoyed this. I appreciate you guys. All right, we're out of here. What's up? Comeback stories, family, It's Donnie dropping in here. So did you know that Darren and E's relationships started by me being his personal development, mindfulness and mindset coach. I want to let you know about both my one on one coaching program, The Shift and my group Mastermind Elevate Your Purpose. These coaching programs are specifically designed for people who are ready to take the next step in their purpose and level up their career, personal finances, and have more connected, deep and meaningful relationships. My gift and part of my purpose is to help others take that next step and leveling up their lives so that they can have a greater impact on the lives of others, create success that sustainable yet evolves and grows, and help build a legacy that will outlive your life. If this is called and you just go to Donnie Starkins dot com and apply for either one of my programs,